Insured 20 year old man stuck with $11,000 hospital bill

EXACTLY what you just posted....... That single payer only addresses a small portion of healthcare cost. It doesn't address medical technology costs, pharmaceutical costs, physician salary, RN salary, ad infinitm.

You LITERALLY circled around my original argument over the period of a week, then FINALLY posted exactly what my original argument was you argued against.......

 

ROFL yeah blame the right because the left's plans always fail.

"Yet while most Canadians are satisfied with the current system, economic pressure is building for reform. As a result, three provincial premiers are signaling a move toward privatization which could significantly alter the Canadian healthcare landscape.

"Our healthcare system is on life support and it is fading fast," said British Columbia premier Gordon Campbell recently."

Yeah that conservative Gordon Campbell...ROFL.

"The premiers of Alberta, Ontario, and British Columbia say ballooning costs and long delays for some procedures can only be solved by private initiatives. Up to 40 percent of their provincial budgets goes toward healthcare.

Canada's healthcare system is actually run by its 10 provinces and three territories, but is governed by federal guidelines set out in the Canada Health Act. In exchange for following the five principles of the act - universal access, portability, public management, coverage of all medically necessary services, and no additional user fees - the federal government pays a share of the costs.

While the federal government originally promised to cover half of those costs, Ottawa's share has been declining for years. Currently its contribution hovers around 15 percent.

That amount of money, said Alberta's premier Ralph Klein, makes Ottawa "irrelevant" to the future of healthcare funding.

Indeed, premiers from all 10 provinces blame the federal Liberal Party government for the state of the system, and are forming a council, expected to be operational on May 1, to take that argument to the people."
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0228/p07s02-woam.html

 

Who, exactly, is proposing "socialized healthcare"? And I do not recall having read anything that particularly defines that term. Can you help me?

 

I hear progressive daily calling for all of healthcare to be under the thumb of the government DUH. They cry, "eliminate insurance companies and make all physicians and nurses work for the government! It's what's best for all of us!".

Sure. It's when the government owns the hospitals, pharmacology businesses, employs the physicians, nurses, handles all payments etc.

Anything else I can do for you?

 

I am not interested in who's winning and who's losing. I those egocentric >>>>>s in Washington would stop worrying about that, power-brokering and re-election and work for us instead, then they could craft a single payer system where everyone would contribute their premiums by payroll deduction, even if they are unable to pay the full-ride, and everyone would get basic coverage (no going to ER free and getting all benefits free like now) and those who are able to afford a supplement can get upgrades. That way, everyone contributes to what they are getting now (free or not), and those of us who are paying can get upgrades and still pay less. You don't imagine how much more affordable your health care is than what you are paying now, until you quit paying for the uninsured. Now, if that makes me a communist, then I guess I am a pinko.

 

Nonsense. Single Payer makes it much easier to gather statistics and used them for many studies to bring down costs. Canada has shown us that Single Payer is more than just the administrative side. The scatter figures available under a market system makes it hard to determine what works and doesn't work. Uniformity of data helps us to create a better system.

No matter how much Big Money wants to paint an ugly picture of Single Payer, Canada was able to spend less on Health Care and rank higher than the U S in the world ratings.

 

I have no idea who or what "progressive daily" is, but I have heard no one calling for healthcare professionals to work for the government or government owned hospitals. I have personally called for the health insurance industry to be marginalized, as in sell whatever they can sell in competition with the public option, or more succinctly, supplemental to the public option, but what they are doing now is charging you for the hospitals' mandatory treatment for the uninsured. Is there something that you like about paying for people who refuse to pay?

 

Was there a reason to post a RW talking point that has nothing to do with the thread?

 

Speaking of nonsense, your post doesn't address mine and spare me the we need to do it for research......

Single payer would be fine if someone was doing it other than the federal government that loses 60 billion in fraud annually through Medicare alone.

 

Why should the government provide you universal health care at taxpayer expense and out of the general budget and not carry out their primary function, national security and defense of the nation, in order to do it. Where does the Constitution even authorize such taxation and spending and place it above national security?

- - - Updated - - -

As I said many countries with universal government paid health care are MOVING towards more privatization as many of those countries already have with more private hospitals and clinics already operating.

 

Actually one could say more like fascist health care with Obamacare with it being private but under strict and punishable government dictate and control.

 

Okay, list of lies: under Single Payer not "under the thumb of government". No one is calling for "all physicians and nurses work for government".

 

So if you haven't heard something, it must not exist.

Actually, I just read your post on single payer (post #581) and now you're claiming you support a public option. Get back to me when you know what you're talking about.

 

Ahhh who is going to be paying for the uninsured under your plan? And no I do not expect that government running it would be more efficient and more cost effective as we have seen when it took them over $600,000,000 to do what private business does for $5,000,000 everyday and it still doesn't work and is still not complete.

 

Nonsense!!

 

Our government already mandates universal healthcare. it is called "the Hill-Burton Act". It mandates that all hospitals treat all people, whether they can pay or not. Since they cannot refuse to treat anyone, they do so and charge you and me. Everyone gets treated, not timely, not efficiently, in fact, grossly inefficiently, but they do get treated, and you and I pay for it.

So, do you want to pay for it in your insurance premiums and deductibles (that is why they are so high), or do you want the government that tells our hospitals and doctors and nurses that they have to treat them for free, to also tell the uninsured that they have to pay something into the system? The former is what you are saying, that you would rather pay obscene premiums and deductibles, so that the uninsured can continue to suck the life out of the healthcare system, than continue to construe the Constitution they way it has been construed for the last 230 years.

Pardon me if I disagree. I am chastened by a former deletion from speaking more frankly.

 

Yes, everybody loves to hail the Canadian system. Too bad they don't really know the condition of the Canadian system.

As I just posted:

The idea that single payor is universally in good shape and better than the US system is false. Almost all single payor systems - including the Canadian system - are stressed and looking at failure.

The Canadians at least have teh guts to admit it and try to do something about it. Here in the US we are swamped with people who are blinded by ideology and a govt so incompetent that it cant put up a simple web site.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/medicare-fraud-a-60-billion-crime-23-10-2009/

Yep. That's who you want handling ALL billing. No, thanks. I'll take my chances with businesses that are actually held accountable for their actions AND I can invest in!

 

Ahhh did you fail to read post 578. Canada like many countries with government health care are turning to the private system to bail them out because the cost have gotten so high and the service so low.

No matter how much Big Money wants to paint an ugly picture of Single Payer, Canada was able to spend less on Health Care and rank higher than the U S in the world ratings.

 

You completely misunderstand me--I am not talking to you at all, because you will not be persuaded by facts. I am speaking you whomever might, otherwise, be influenced by you. For that reason, you may continue to ignore my posts.

 

Could you please cite the source of these statistics? I have not seen them.

 

General Welfare Clause.

No!! Special interests are "proposing" changes to try and sabotage universal healthcare. We did agree that was happening.

The nonsense about private hospitals and clinics is the same as concierge doctors. For the rich and beautiful. As long as they are for the excessives, I do not care.

 

Do we, perchance, have a winner here? Are you invested in the health insurance industry? That might explain your devotion to it.

 

I didn't misunderstand anything. You advocated for single payer in one post and advocated for a public option in the next. Forgive me if I don't trust these "facts" you claim to have when speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

I do not think Iraq was a "necessary" war, I think Afghanistan could of been handle for much less - both wars cost too much in both $$$, blood and lives

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