Israel comes under heavy rocket fire from Gaza, suspected terror infiltration

10MIN AGO


IDF launches strikes on Lebanon after Hezbollah fires anti-tank missile at border post

TOI STAFF

Hospital in north moves patients underground; IDF steps up efforts to kill senior Hamas leaders as it strikes Gaza on an ‘unprecedented’ scale; no new infiltrations in last 2 days

https://www.timesofisrael.com/

 

Contrary to all speculation, the current Hamas attack was not provoked from Tehran - we are dealing with an uprising of concentration camp inmates, that is, those who have nothing to lose and are tired of constant humiliation, dependence on an order of magnitude stronger enemy and hopelessness.

 

You're surprised the American flag is not respected among the victims of its wars of aggression?


"HUMAN COST OF POST-9/11 WARS: DIRECT WAR DEATHS IN MAJOR WAR ZONES, AFGHANISTAN & PAKISTAN (OCT. 2001 – AUG. 2021); IRAQ (MARCH 2003 – MARCH 2023); SYRIA (SEPT. 2014 – MARCH 2023); YEMEN (OCT. 2002-AUG. 2021) AND OTHER POST-9/11 WAR ZONES"

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/WarDeathToll

 

The burgeoning Israeli-Palestinian war concerns the entire world community - regardless of who sympathizes with whom or how far away from the Gaza Strip one is. Because we are dealing not just with one (albeit the oldest) of the world's hot spots, but with a problem that could really blow up the whole world. And neither the conflict in Ukraine nor a hypothetical war over Taiwan can compare to it in terms of the concentration of contradictions and the scale of threats.
Level One: Israeli-Palestinian. In response to an attack by Palestinian Hamas, Israel is now striking the Gaza Strip, having previously cut off its water, gas and electricity. And it is preparing to launch a ground operation to destroy not just the infrastructure and military strength of Hamas, but the organization as such. But there is no way to do that: Hamas has long been not just the power but the organizational structure of the Palestinians of Gaza. Some three million Palestinians live on this small piece of land, and to destroy Hamas, Israel would either have to raze Gaza to the ground or have all Palestinians flee to neighboring Egypt. Neither is physically possible - although Gaza has been living in a large concentration camp regime (blockaded and totally dependent on Israel) for decades, the Palestinians will not leave even under carpet bombing. Nor will Israel be able to expel them by force or bring Gaza under military control. A ground operation, if it does begin, will cost the Jewish state huge casualties (in the conditions of urban fighting), and total military superiority, as the events of October 7 showed, is no longer decisive for success.
And so although Prime Minister Netanyahu is now threatening Hamas with horrors and claiming that with a retaliatory strike "we are going to change the Middle East," the chances that Israel will dare to launch a full-scale and short-lived military invasion of Gaza seem slim. Not only because in reality Israel lacks the capability to destroy Hamas, but also because a military operation would cause an escalation of the conflict. And this will manifest itself not only in a strike on Israel from the north by Lebanon's Hezbollah, but also in the fact that from an Israeli-Palestinian conflict will become an Israeli-Arab conflict. That is, what it was originally.
And that's the second level. Israel, of course, can try to bomb the Palestinians back into the stone age, but the many thousands and then tens of thousands of civilian casualties in Gaza will lead to an explosion of Arab street outrage in the Middle East and force the governments of the region to change their policies not only toward Israel, but to demand that the U.S. stop the Israeli war machine. All the results of efforts to establish relations between Israel and individual Arab countries in recent years will be destroyed. Moreover, the attempt to eliminate Gaza, together with the outbreak of clashes in Jerusalem and the West Bank and fighting with Hezbollah on Lebanese territory, will also intensify the third level of conflict, the Israeli-Islamic one. The entire billion-and-a-half Muslim world will demand the protection of the Palestinians and Al-Quds - Jerusalem, holy to all the faithful. When this third level of conflict is reached, the threat of involvement of Iran - not just a regional power, but also a contender for the place of the main defender of Islam in the world - increases.

 

There are some similarities between the Warsaw Uprising and recent events in Gaza:

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/10/gaza-2023-our-warsaw-uprising-moment

 

Israel is not an ordinary state, but, in fact, the 51st state of the United States in the Middle East, and a privileged state at that. Everyone realizes that going to war with Israel is tantamount to going to war with the US. But the problem is that U.S. global dominance has already been shaken (and the trend is unambiguously negative for the U.S.). And with it, Israel's dominance in the region has shaken - neither the atomic bomb, nor technological superiority, nor skillful propaganda can ensure its security and existence in the medium term.
Because the current Israel, which shamelessly and with impunity (if we talk about such a favorite tool of the West as sanctions) tramples all the rights of the Palestinians (building its state on their lands and not wanting to give them the right to create their own), could exist only in the era of American dominance (and before that in the era of Soviet-American confrontation). This era could not be eternal in any case, but it could be used to find a solution to the Palestinian problem. It was in Israel's interest to find this solution, because in this way it would be able to preempt the time when it would be left alone with the surrounding Arabs, that is, doomed. However, Israel did not want to recognize the coming reality and honestly look at its prospects - and did not allow the creation of a Palestinian state, and did not want to become a state of two peoples (did not abandon the principle of a purely Jewish nation-state, making the Palestinians full citizens). Israel condemned itself to defeat in the short-term historical perspective - and even now it continues to speak of its opponents as "terrorists" and "beasts in human form", that is, it refuses to recognize its responsibility for decades of humiliation of the Palestinian people.

 

This is the primary problem with Israel and why the problem persists after 50 years. The basis of government in Israel is not in ideals and institutions but rather on tribalism. I don't think this will be solved as long as a tribal system is kept.

In fact, Obama pushing tribalism in his second term has caused a great deal of heartache in the U.S. as well. Tribalism is not a good idea in a modern multicultural society.

 

This never happened. The offer has always been pseudo-independence with limited self-governance. They were never offered full independence.

Hamas did not recognize Israel's right to exist. Arafat and the PA did and does. Israel chose to support Hamas and now they are reaping the whirlwind.

 

'US and allies warn militant group Hezbollah against escalating'

Published 6:08 AM EDT, Wed October 11, 2023

read
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/us-allies-warn-hezbollah/index.html

 

Why wouldn't Hezbollah keep attacking Israel who is at it weakest?


What’s the Difference Between Hamas and Hezbollah?
By
James Hookway

People carry the coffins of two Hezbollah members who died during Israeli shelling on south Lebanon Monday. (mohamed azakir/Reuters)

'Hezbollah, like Hamas, is designated a terrorist group by the U.S. and other countries and both share an antipathy toward Israel.
Hamas follows the Sunni branch of Islam, along with the majority of the Islamic world. Hezbollah ascribes to the Shia branch like Iran, so has longer-running ties to the Islamic Republic.
Formed in the aftermath of the 1982 Lebanon War, Hezbollah was established as an umbrella group for the country's disparate Shiite factions. Its fighters were trained in part by forces from Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. In the 1990s, Hezbollah adopted a more formal political role in Lebanon and has become a prominent faction in that country's ruling alliance.
Hezbollah and Hamas both aim to eradicate the Israeli state. Hezbollah leaders praised Hamas after the Oct. 7 attacks and there has been some fighting with Israeli troops along the Israel-Lebanon border since the Hamas assault.

Hezbollah also serves Iran’s broader objectives in the Middle East by opposing any Western or Israeli presence in the region.

A U.S. aircraft carrier strike force is due to arrive in the Eastern Mediterranean on Tuesday. A defense official described the deployment as “a deterrent signal to Iran, Lebanese Hezbollah, and any other proxy across the region” who were considering joining the conflict.




https://archive.ph/MmWbK

 

Same here

 

IDF launches strikes on Lebanon after Hezbollah fires anti-tank missile at border post
3 hours ago



Israeli soldiers and militants killed in confrontation on Lebanon frontier
4 hours ago

Reuters
Israeli shelling hits south Lebanon after Hezbollah rocket fire
1 hour ago

 

What ?? 11 seconds short video with no information and No proof.
Give us a break, it's all Russian propaganda... crap

 

This is a "problem" you'll find throughout the Middle East. Many of us were forced to learn that while we were mucking around in Iraq, and I'm not sure it is something that can be "solved", at least in the short term.

As far as Israel is concerned, I think we have to remember that the Israelis view their country first and foremost as a Jewish sanctuary, and there are legitimate fears that this will be lost if the Arabs/Palestinians take over the country again, whether it be through conquest or demographics. For example, the Islamists in Hamas have made it clear that if they take over Israel they will reimpose the old punitive dhimma system on the non-Muslims living under their rule, which will strip the Jews (and Christians) of their fundamental rights and security. This was precisely what Israel was established to prevent, and there's no way the Jews in Israel are going to allow themselves to be reduced to persecuted status again.

As a supporter of the two-state solution I hate to say this, but perhaps we were naive (or foolish) to think that these two tribes could co-exist side by side, much less under one roof. The Middle East is what it is - tribalistic and atavistic - and the people are set in their ways. One of the things we learned in Iraq and Afghanistan is that try as we might, there are some things we cannot change.

I agree, but to be more precise, I would say tribalism is not a good idea in a modern Western pluralistic nation. What Westerners euphemistically refer to as "multiculturalism" - the thing you see practiced in parts of Europe where groups of people aren't encouraged to integrate into one cohesive and harmonious whole - E pluribus unum - is really tribalism by another fancier anodyne name. That's why "multiculturalism" (tribalism) is failing in parts of the West while pluralism has succeeded here in our mongrel nation of immigrants.

 

I think the outcome of this war will depend in large measure on whether the efforts to contain the war to a single front for the time being and prevent others such as Hezbollah to join the fray, bear fruit? I understand Hezbollah is under enormous pressure domestically to not join the fighting. I therefore realize Hezbollah's involvement is not a foregone conclusion. For now, they are limiting their assistance to symbolic moves and attacks, even though those can spiral to something bigger. Already, there have been fatalities on both sides: the IDF has confirmed that besides the senior officer killed by Hezbollah fire yesterday, 2 other IDF soldiers were killed in the cross fire with Hezbollah so far. Of course, if Hezbollah does get involved, we are talking about a war the likes of which Israel has never experienced. Hezbollah can raze much of the critical infrastructure of Israel to the ground and make Tel Aviv resemble Gaza. But Israel can do the same to Beirut and other Lebanese cities.

Given the above, the critical issue that Hezbollah and its allies face is how to deliver message to Israel to not over play its hands against Hamas and to not get fooled by its slogans about its war objectives, without actually seeing the whole region thrown into war? It is a balancing act akin to walking a tight rope: to hit Israel enough and to give indications of the same sufficient for Israel to take the message to heart without setting off the powder keg in a way that will totally inflame the region.

My own view is that it will take a week or so for cooler heads to reassess whether Israel's current war objectives are ones that can be realized without leading to a major regional war? If the US/Israel bank too heavily and more than they should on what is nonetheless admittedly true and a fact, i.e., that neither Hezbollah nor Iran want this to blow into a full scale regional and extra regional war, then chances are we find such a war eventually unleashed by the dynamics of this war against Hamas. Israel cannot expect to get away with destroying Gaza or imagine it can really destroy Hamas without things getting out of hand. At the same time, the other side realizes that Israel will need to win back a measure of its so-called deterrence and image and cannot be expected, in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas attack, to show the kind of restraint and cool head it will eventually need to show.

That is my take. But I wouldn't bet on anything as the situation is fluid and things can look very different from one day to another.

 

Israel war: Iran's Khamenei hails Hamas, warns retaliation could be 'greater disaster'
by Joel Gehrke, Foreign Affairs Reporter
October 10, 2023 12:26 PM

'A senior Hamas official warned Israel on Tuesday that Iran and Lebanese Hezbollah “will join the battle if Gaza is subjected to a war of annihilation,” according to the Associated Press.
???

cont:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...n-khamenei-hamas-retaliation-greater-disaster

 

Years of subterfuge, high-tech barrier paralyzed: How Hamas busted Israel’s defenses
By TOI STAFF and AFP

IDF was fooled by terror group’s messaging, over-relied on remote-controlled surveillance systems and weapons that were swiftly disabled by drones and snipers, enabling onslaught

 

there are only two solutions, either Israel takes over the entire region (gaza and west bank) or they return to their safe haven in the usa, im sure there is plenty of room there to create a New Jerusalem.

 

what chance of gaza and west bank palestinians resigning themselves to defeat and giving the land to the israelis?

 

If the so-called 'axis of resistance' is unable to prevent Israel from totally annihilating Hamas and can't prevent Israel from destroying Gaza, then I suppose the voices of those who feel 'resistance is futile' will become much stronger. But things like this don't stay static when you are dealing with an ethno-religious state like Israel which is not equipped to assimilate the losers without losing its ethnic/religious identity. In other words, when assimilation is not an option either, the human spirit to resist domination and humilation will eventually forget about the costs of resistance and the cycle will repeat itself even if under a different ideology or billing.

 

LIVEUPDATED
2MIN AGO

New rockets attacks on the south as IDF strikes Gaza on an ‘unprecedented’ scale

link
IDF clashes with Hezbollah on Lebanese border; hospitals in north prepare underground wards; IDF steps up efforts to kill senior Hamas leaders; EU says Hamas attack ‘ act of war’

 

might i also add to my original question, assimilation not being an option either. was thinking more like becoming refugees to lebanon, jordan and egypt..because it appears unimaginable that the israelis, as you stated, would not accomodate them.

 

I never heard IDF confirmed 3 dead by Hezbollah.....there was one wounded by yesterday infiltration and Hezbollah denied involvement saying they were palestinians from camps nearby.
I believe this is coming so we'll see who' what soon enough.

To the Israelis powder keg exploded on Saturday

Thx for your thoughts

 

Why wouldn't they want it? because it has nothing of value and will only produce dead Israelis.

There is a reason Israel left last time - occupying such a densely populated territory full of people who want you dead is a losing prospect. They get to kill you at will and nothing you can do will make them stop hating you. And it costs you a fortune doing it.

I don't think Israel will occupy for long if at all. There are other ways to get what it wants.

 

What about Arab peacekeepers? Make it an Arab problem, so to speak.

Just tossing it out there...