The Problem with Taxes and the "Fair Tax"

Not everyone has a rich daddy to send them to private schools with other rich kids who have the means to start and investment company.

 

I agree with you. It's a dishonest argument to say that he accomplished what he accomplished on his own. His father...yes. Romney? No. That said..it is the way of parents to help their children do better than they did. He took what his father gave him and built on it.

 

A billionaire should pay the same tax rate as a family living in poverty according to conservatives. The family in poverty should pay 20% of the meager income they get they desparately need for food and shelter and clothing and transportation, so that billionaires can buy bigger mega yachts.

It's unfortunate, but many Americans are bewitched by a greed mentality and prefer the Right's definition of fairness, making others pay for taxes they can't afford because the rich deserve bigger megauyachts. It's why I have scant hope that tax reform will ever really happen.

 

Two reasons why the Fair Tax doesn't work:

1) Sales taxes are extremely easy to avoid via the internet.

2) It wouldn't bring in enough revenue to cover our current government spending.

Our current system runs big enough deficits already, but this system would just deepen the hole.

Before any major tax cut, we have to cut spending. Taxes really aren't the problem right now compared to our level of debt.

 

If we had a progressive system you might be right. The top 10% pays 90% of the taxes, but what every Republican fails to mention is that the top 10% makes 90% of the income (numbers are approximate). When you factor in capital gains taxation, deferred taxes, the $trillion stored in the Caymans or Switzerland, and 10,000 other loopholes, we have a regressive tax system. What's so moral about that?

 

Yes!

EXACTLY!

Or the tax cut will force the spending cut...either way my hopes are that the size and power of government will reduce, but that would take the entire Paul family running for office, I think.

 

Okay this underground economy arguement is complete bull. I know exactly what will happen the underground economy will import much of the goods people want and sell them at a discount and without the crippling taxes since they won't collect it. That is what I would do and know those that do now one sells cigarettes by the cigarette, to those at bus stops and the like buying foreign decent brands and makes a decent income. The same theory can go for jeans and anything else you could sell them low key online using a foreign dropshipper maybe in China and make a fortune they don't care they don't pay income taxes they won't pay the fair tax and the odds of getting caught are low if your smart and not to greedy.

On paper it looks nice but in practice its not practical its to easy to screw around with the system for example what if you barter goods and services that is not taxed now and I try to do that when I can say hand out fliers for a restaurant for meals, if they give me some cash its something I can hide its cash. The government is poor at tracking cash if its not moved through something they can monitor and the achilles heel is the fact cash is cash. If I want to get something online I can buy a gift card with a VISA logo on it and its as good as cash no SSN or information other than my zip code.

I just think you push a poor person with this they will push back where they can and Undergrounders are very good at staying under the radar now your not going to change that.

 

No doubt it has been discussed here. I haven't participated in any of those discussions, but what I meant is that it's not being seriously discussed as policy. Neither Obama nor Romney have proposed implementing the fair tax.

I agree about the Norquist pledge, but a few Republicans are starting to see it as a hindrance.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...fts-on-taxes/2012/05/25/gJQAQ5I0pU_story.html

Romney's tax plan is a disaster. Couple that with his proposal for increased defense spending and the sky's the limit on our debt. Problem is, our debt is no longer such an attractive buy to investors. Last year, the Fed bought 61% of Treasury issues.

http://www.moneynews.com/Headline/fed-debt-Treasury/2012/03/28/id/434106?s=al&promo_code=E8AA-1

 

I'll put it this way. If tax cuts forced spending cuts, the government would have dramatically shrunk in the 80s. It didn't.

We've had several rounds of tax cuts since Reagan, and so far, we've only briefly seen decreases in the size of government.

 

When they are taking in 90-95% of the profits, I dont really feel so bad for them. Sorry.

 

Spending and debt are separate issues, and debt could just as easily be attributed to a lack of tax revenue. Our level of government spending as a % of GDP is about the lowest in the industrial world (despite having to play cop to the rest of the world), so it's all just a matter of paying the piper.

 

Wealthy May Hide as Much as $32 Trillion Offshore, Report Says

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...much-as-32-trillion-offshore-report-says.html

Super Rich Hide $21 Trillion Offshore, Study Says

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederi...er-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/

That's right. Those living in poverty shouldn't have to pay taxes, or at least much.

But it is the mentality of greed, that the laws the uber wealthy get passed buy their bribed representatives in the Republican party, that redistributes more and more of the nation's wealth and income to them, and the mentality that they should pay lower taxes or no taxes while the middle classes pay more taxes, that characterizes the sick, twisted, covetous, greedy mentality of saintmichaeldefendthem and everyone like saintmichaeldefendthem that will be a hinderance to ever restoring fairness to the tax system.

 

That's great for those who have a rich daddy.

But I believe that a person's ability should be based on merit, not whether he happens to have a rich daddy.

 

Our public debt is over 100% of our annual GDP. That's considerably higher than a lot of the First World.

 

Exactly. The only thing tax cuts forced was $16 trillion in debt.

 

I said that I agreed with you. As someone who DID work her ass off for scholarships and DID make it on her own, I certainly get pissed when people say that anyone can do what Romney did. It's just not true. To make it from poverty to the top you must be exceptional in some way.

 

Taxes, proportional to GDP, have been about $750-800 billion lower per year over the past three years than they were in 2000. Well more than half the current deficits.

That seems like a problem to me. That difference alone is about $2.4 trillion of debt, and doesn't include the rest of the Bush tax cut years.

 

We were also under the Cold War mentality and fear and fewer people had access to knowledge like we do now. Everything was fed by the news stations exclusively. There is a huge rise in limited government types in the US right now.

 

What are you talking about?
ANYONE, even YOU, can start a business today without barely any money at all. Jeez, most Ebay businesses do so on no starting capital at all. If you want to do so too, go ahead... the only thing stopping you is your lack of incentive to save taxes???

 

That is not even close to accurate. That is the percentage of income taxes, and doesn't include any other type of federal tax. Income taxes make up less than half, 42%, of federal revenue. When the other types of taxes are included so you are talking about "the taxes" that rate drops to about about half that figure.

 

I'm talking about opportunity. The ability to get into and attend the best schools and come out without being scores of thousands in debt. Of the contracts that are made there that allow networking opportunities into additional wealth. Or even inheriting millions.

 

And that is unfair. A fair tax would put the burden on the poor.

 

What? LOL... you got alot of posts but I have to wonder how many of them are worth reading? Jeez.....
If you add up all the taxes we pay each year our AVERAGE tax rate is more than 50% as an American people(not counting crimaliens). And NONE of us get to deduct our gas tax or most other taxes unless we declare a business on our tax return. As I already mentioned multiple times... YOU can do that too simply by buying and selling on Ebay and locally of your stuff. Even better is if you can think of something you can make to sell which brings into the picture simple manufacturing costs.

What don't you understand about you having the same tax options as anyone else including Romney and Obama? Even better in 2013 is the potential for Romney to continue those same deductions for YOU while eliminating them for folks making more than $250K.

What could be possibly wrong with any of that???

 

I call bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Feel free to prove how your AVERAGE tax rate is more than 50%.

Sounds like another dose of RW propaganda to me.

Thanks for the advice. I'll wait to see how informed and honest you are about taxes first.

What don't you understand about you having the same tax options as anyone else including Romney and Obama? Even better in 2013 is the potential for Romney to continue those same deductions for YOU while eliminating them for folks making more than $250K.

What "stuff"?

 

Heck, grow up. There will always be folks who have more money than you or me.
As for best schools... I was surprised to see that some of the best HS students in Ivy League schools like Harvard, paid nothing. They want the best and want the best lower income, and minority candidates so they are willing to pay most if not all of the costs for those students.

I have one student in her first year of college and another as a senior in high school and I would love to help you learn about the college process as much as you want. If you have a child about to enter his/her junior/senior high school year, you NEED some help to understand how it works. I am here if you need me.