Anti WHITE Race quotes and views..............

You're promoting something you're calling "White Pride Nationalism". To be proud of something, surely you must think it is good?

Of course, I don't think it's the "whiteness" that you're actually proud of, which was my initial point about your position. To be honest, I think you're deliberately misusing the word white in this context to make a political point, albeit in a rather petty manner.

I'm specifically not calling any groups racist. My point was that some individuals who speak out against immigration are clearly racist (or at least use racist points to support their position). The problem with this is that is can cause anyone who speaks against immigration to be wrongly accused of racism by association.

The problem you face with this fact is that you are doing exactly the same thing by wrongly accusing all "leftists" of being racist because some individuals who speak out on similar issues are. You can't call all "leftists" anti-white but then moan when you're called a racist too.

Well, we've not really established exactly who those people are or how influential they might be, let alone whether the allegations of what they said are entirely accurate in context. I certainly don't recognise the extreme implications of those quotes being reflected in any mainstream thought so it can't be all that influential.

The generalising is the leap from a dozen or so individuals to whoever you're defining as "leftist", likely hundreds of thousands if not millions of individuals in the USA alone for you to be in any way concerned about them. I'm sure selective quotes could be picked out from anti-immigration writing to present an equally negative conclusion yet you wouldn't accept being associated with that just because you share a similar political position to them.

Individuals are ultimately only responsible for what they personally say and do (or don't say and do). We shouldn't be condemned for the sins of our father so we certainly shouldn't be condemned for the sins of some bloke half-way across the country who wrote some stupid article.

I can't address the last point because I've never received a clear answer on this from anyone; How exactly do you define the term "leftist"?

 

I'm not promoting anything; I'm merely showing my pride for people who just happen to be WHITE. I'm not proud of all white people, for I certainly am not proud of those white leftists who have this unnatural and self-defeating/self-dstructive attitude toward their own race.

That's good to hear. Perhaps now we're getting somewhere.

Woops, I spoke too soon. I may very well be using the word 'white' to make a political point, but I wouldn't be the first one to do it. Again, if you were to fully comprehend the quotes and the message from the OP--you would see that its the leftists who are badmouthing the white race. Would you call all that badmouthing of the white race by those leftists to be petty?

My points exactly! But you still didn't give me an example of a prominent leftist who doesn't indeed share many if not all of the sentiments of the OP quotes. So until you do, you'll just have to excuse me for continuing to paint this canvas with a large brush.

Perhaps I missed it, but where exactly did I call anyone a racist in the context of this thread? I have never moaned when the unintelligent ignoramuses have called me a racist. I sort of wear that label as a badge of honor in knowing that I'll always be one up on those stooges by encompassing the truth. But policy after policy regarding race issues has always produced an anti white declaration by the leftist crowd. I still haven't seen this to not be the case.

Well, if you really wanted to know how they felt about this issue, the content and context of such, and or how influential they may be then you would have done some research via the bibliography I left for each one. That's totally your call.

Like I said before, I haven't seen any prominent leftist views to the contrary concerning this immigration issue.

Though you yourself certainly are not a prominent figure in American politics today, I would be curious to know first... if you are indeed a white man and a leftist at that...and if you are, do you agree with any or all of those quotes from the OP? If you and or prominent white leftists don't agree with them, and believe those quotes to be damaging or inappropriate at best, then wouldn't you think that you or those prominent lefties would have a sense of decency by getting the message out that you disagree with or at least say that you do not condone such words?

Normally I wouldn't make such a big stink out it, but this immigration issue is too important not to take these people to task.

A leftist in my view is anyone who after drinking the Kool-Aid jumps into the welfare line and demands that Uncle Sam pay their way through life. A leftist is also someone who feels its their right to punish the rich and the productive people of our nation, while insisting we rob them via a redistribution of the wealth. A leftist is someone who has an animosity toward anything to do with our military and or war. A leftist is anyone who derides businesses and corporations, and in doing so totally condone the aggressive taxes and regulations heaped upon them. A leftist is someone who calls people racist for simply having an opinion on an issue. A leftist is someone calling Tea Partiers racist for simply wanting to reduce taxes and reduce government power. A leftist is someone who thinks spending millions of tax dollars on useless and failed green energies like Solyndra while over taxing coal and oil industries is something that will light the fire under our failed economy. A leftist is someone who does not know the difference between right and wrong...between moral and immoral and between reality and a leftist utopian dream. etc...etc...

 

Ahh yes we're replaced by our children, but you really cant tell the difference between the West and other countries? Of course you can, just like we all can. Then the English colonized countries are even closer again, not exactly the same as you point out but vastly closer than any non Western countries. The people while individuals do matter to who/ what a country is its plain to see, but we all know this already its so obvious.

Why would i see you as the enemy, you seem to understand the case being made and largely support it (just not the extremes which i dont either). Most people that dislike current immigration policy/ trends dislike the fact non Western immigration is way to high, but you dont hear them saying anyone other races should be deported or treated differently under the law. You may get groups like UKIP (which as an Aussie id support) saying they'd freeze immigration for a while, only because the demographic change and immigration levels too high for too long - that not saying no immigration ever again.

Personally i think the 80/20 rule appears to work to often to not have some basis to it, so id think something like 80% Western immigration, 20% non western would be fine. Maintains a high level of native Europeans keeping the values, cultures ect of them and their ancestors alive (agree drift happens and thats normal) which should work well for the 20%. I like to think those non Western immigrants come to the West for these very things, not to change it to their homelands.

Maybe they only to say it to my face, but in Oz we have many Asian, nearly all of them ive spoken to about the subject want to keep white majorities. That where they chose to live, not in Asia which has different values. Likewise i couldnt imagine moving to China then insisting because they accepted me they now have some moral obligation to replace all the Chinese people - seems insane doesnt it?

 

OK, so you can stop doing it now. I want to cut through the bull-excrement and bluster and get to the key points.

No, I think it would be more serious than that. That's why I'm objecting to your petty response.

I wasn't clear on what you were calling leftist. I don't think anyone needs to demonstrate what they don't believe in this manner though. If that was a legitimate principal, everyone would spend all of their time defending themselves because we're all part of countless groupings of people and pretty much every grouping has it's kooks and extremists.

I'd suggest that an "leftist" you can't demonstrate expressing or demonstrating such sentiments should be assumed innocent of them, just as any "rightist" should be assumed to be innocent of racist sentiments unless proven otherwise.

You're accusing people (indeed, all "leftists" by association) of being anti-white. That would be racism by any common definition.

I think if you're making the accusations, you've more responsibility to back it up.

Or maybe you sub-consciously ignore anyone who's views doesn't fit your preconceived of "leftist". I believe most political and social opinions of immigration (like pretty much any other subject) are fairly neutral and middle ground. That's boring though, so doesn't get anything like as much attention.

As I've already said, my personal opinion is that anyone who really believes the views described are idiots. That's what I and I expect others would say as and when such views come to attention.

Well that rhetoric was a bad start for a formal definition.

Does a person need to meet any one or all of these criteria to be a leftist? Depending on interpretation (which your definition is widely open to) I could have pretty much everyone meeting at least one of this criteria and absolutely nobody meeting all of them. For what it's worth, even working around the US-centric aspects, I don't meet any of them but I've certainly been automatically lumped in to that grouping (even by you on previous threads I'm sure).

I think this just demonstrates the overall problem with generalised political labels, especially negative ones. It's really just a convenience to lump all the people we don't like together to make hating and dismissing them more efficient. You started out fine looking at what several individuals (apparently) wrote but shifting that to a generalised "all leftists" target rather than looking at more depth at those individuals is where you loose me.

 

I should have noticed that you've been playing a semantics game here all along. Running away from the leftist label is part and parcel of what leftists do when they're put on the spot to explain themselves and explain their actions and or beliefs. You couldn't come up with a clear reason as to how or why you as a leftist would differ from the beliefs of those in the OP. I will continue to lump all leftists into the same boat(s) until I see there is a difference in their philosophies. To make things easier for you, I could give a basic description of a leftist, and that would be someone who favors an all-powerful government to act as their nanny and higher taxes, whereas, a basic description of a Conservative would be someone who believes in individual-personal freedoms and a competitive free market economy that would include less government and less taxes. You can take those basic axioms and apply them both to the immigration problem to see where each stands. Look again to the OP to see where you stand on the immigration issue. Of course you always have the option to stay silent, as a suppose will be the case.

 

It's hard not to play semantics when people make up words with ever shifting definitions depending on how they want to use them.

I'm "running" from it because, by any reasonable interpretation of your definition, it simply doesn't apply to me. I want to avoid labels in general anyway, precisely to focus on individual actions and beliefs rather than stereotypes.

Erm, I thought I'd done that repeatedly. I don’t think white people should carry any guilt for the actions of some people who happen to be white in the past (or the present for that matter). I don’t think any characteristics should be automatically applied to any individual solely on the basis of their perceived racial grouping. I serious can't think how I can make that any clearer.

Yet loads of people who you would consider "leftists" won't have written anything like the quotes alleged in your OP, even those who have written papers or articles on the subject area. Again, I don't see how you can honestly assume a specific position of anyone in the absence of any specific evidence. You don't assume extreme positions voiced by a minority conservatives are automatically believed of all other conservatives do you?

I'm not really either of those then. Your conservative definition is closer but I suspect that's more to do with the bias in your descriptions. My opinions on the complexities of the economy and economics are much more nuanced and knowingly incomplete to fit in to such restrictive definitions. I honestly believe that, once you get in to any kind of detail, that would be true of the vast majority of people. If there were really only two straight answers to these big questions, we'd have resolved them centuries ago.

Sure, you could apply the conservative concepts of personal freedom, free markets and limited government intervention to immigration policy but I'm not sure you'd approve of the conclusion.

I didn't think your OP was meant to be about immigration.

Like economics, my opinions on immigration are realistically complex. I certainly think there can be too much immigration and immigrants of the wrong type but I also think there can be not enough. I certainly believe long-term immigrants should integrate in to the society but I don't think they need to throw away all aspects of their native culture. I think the native population have as much of a part to play in the integration or immigrants as the immigrants themselves. I don't think individual immigrants (and people of foreign backgrounds in general) such be judged on the basis of stereotypes or the actions of others but only on their own merits. I support illegal immigrants being deported, to their home country or the nearest safe one, but I don't ignore the complexities in achieving this. I think a clear distinction needs to be maintained between asylum seekers, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. I don't think there are any easy answers or solutions - that's why it's such a major issue.

I could go on but I really don't want to. I hope that's clear enough for you though I'm happy to clarify.

 

Has anyone else ever read this book? I think it might be a good place to start in discussing how we feel about 'race' , too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_OK,_You're_OK

I'm thinking this whole 'race' bit boils down to some idea of 'mutual respect'..... Yes, different groups/tribes/races are not identical - but the 'difference' is more like different flavors than 'better' or 'worse'.

If we look at the US, it goes back to quite a few groups which each were seeking a haven to 'do their own thing' here - and if we read laws of the different colonies before the Revolution, we see that 'fellow colonists' were not always welcome. So having a similar skin color isn't any 'guarantee' that people will share the same values. Of course, to everyone else the Irish sure looked 'White' - but there was a widespread lack of acceptance with regard to them, at least here in the States.....

Within any 'race' there are also differences of 'class' and different values: do you clean your own home? Do you hire people to look after your children? Do you cook your own meals for everyday, or arrange for delivery, hire a cook? Only some of that is cost-based. A lot of it is cultural.

 

How's Crispus Attucks? James Armistad? And there are many others that fought in the revolutionary war, and assisted in the founding of this nation. Ignorance is inexcusable.

 

I admit I'm new here: but I'm trying to wrap my brain around the idea that anyone who has chosen to ID themselves as a 'hater' is seeking to communicate anything positive?

 

First you would want or need to know exactly what the person is hating, and then go on to see if the hated object is something that others should also hate so as to help us collectively rid ourselves of that particular scourge. Once the scourge is eliminated then we can take a survey to find out just how positive that action will be to our society as a whole. Btw, welcome to the forum.

 

OK, - what is your definition of a 'lib' and why should they be hated?

How is it a good thing to hate other people, was basically the question I was trying to understand...... I can accept being repelled by certain philosophical POV's, but fellow humans? That seems rather extreme. It also seems likely to lead to a great deal of angst.

 

Given that you're new here I'll repeat myself just to make my position clear. I don't hate anyone; I hate modern day liberalism or modern day socialism, or modern day communism, or modern day progressivism, or modern day Marxism, which in reality aren't that much different from one another as being anti American-- so take your pick.

 

http://newsrescue.com/african-american-founding-fathers-suppressed-history-fox-news/#axzz2Y1pskkQI

You can start here, and please do not forget that Crispus Attucks was the first casualty of the American Revolution. There is nothing wrong with having pride in your race and ancestry, however do not discount the history of others, and the role they played in the establishing of this nation. Whether the part is big or small.

 

So then are you not proud of the contributions non-whites have made to America? Have you considered that the founding fathers defied Britain and declared the colonies free, independent of any racial pride or interests of white people as a whole, but rather because they believed that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights? just a crazy thought...

 

I can respect that...

 

Sure I am, but the theme of my OP is to highlight the anti White sentiment(s) that are currently running rife.

Independent of any racial pride? Where or what example(s) do you have to suggest the Founders didn't have racial pride?

 

Yes. As long as you're expressing a crime of racial pride of the past.

 

You are taking that quote out of context, or you are using that quote as a buffer for what you really think about racial pride--that it has no place in our society. I certainly don't agree with that quote, and as such I don't see where having racial pride presents itself as a crime.

The sentence said this, and I'm paraphrasing: Given the past crimes of whites, any sign of racial pride is wrong. That would be like saying....because I once committed a crime against a black person, that it would be wrong for me to have pride in my White race. Its the same thing.

 

Is a black man inferior to yourself?

Regardless of past racial categorizing, is a black man inferior to yourself?

 

I couldn't help but notice that your question conveniently avoids the prior discussion about racial pride. Be that as it may, I would have to break down the word inferior to determine what traits or what skills of a person would constitute a reasonable or an effective analogy to calling someone inferior. For instance, a particular black man may have more athletic skills than myself; so in that case I would be inferior to him in using that one determining factor as a guide. However, I may have a superior I.Q. score over than of a particular black person; so in that case the black man becomes the inferior.

 

Lh, I see exactly what you're doing and where this is coming from. At first I thought you were a racist but now I see that your postings are more rational than simple racism. If I'm not mistaking, your bottom line is that you feel there are an abundance of liberals who unfairly target the white race. Is that about right? It's not that you hate others but you prefer your own race? If that's the case my question is why? Race is more of a physical trait than anything. Most of the reasons you cite for loving the white race are actually reasons to love America, as many of our citizens (regardless of race) have fought to make this great country what it is today. Certainly there are legitimate concerns but our nation is at its best when we tackle those challenges together (not just based on race but political affiliation too). The problem with viewing the world through the race paradigm is that there is no white America, there is no black America, there is only a United States of America. And to answer your earlier question about what evidence do I have that the founding fathers weren't motivated by race to declare America a free nation...notwithstanding the fact that they declared independence from a majority white nation, the founding fathers issued their independence through the Declaration of Independence which plainly stated that ALL men were created equal. That's also roughly the same time when the colonies started using a phrase that I'm sure you'll recognize-out of many, one. That's a powerful statement and the irony is not lost on me that I'm typing this on Independence Day.

 

"If you're white and you don't admit that it's great, you're an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)".

[video=youtube;xqbw4nHrHc0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqbw4nHrHc0[/video]

 

Its a rarity to find someone here that can discuss this race issue without resorting to name calling. I see that you have since shoveled past the manure to get to the point of acknowledging the fact that people are not racists for simply calling a spade a spade, and or for simply having pride in one's own race.

Yes, and the confirmation to that is seen throughout this forum and throughout my OP.

That's correct. I prefer my own race because that is the race of people I grew up with, have family with, go to church with, were married to (3 times), had children with, play sports with, were inducted into the military with, and felt the most comfortable living with.

I totally disagree with that. Race to me has more to do with identifying and being a part of cultural/traditional/historical events and beliefs that would distinguish the differences between my race and that of another race.

I've posted before of all of the reasons why I'm proud of the White race for its contributions to making America the beautiful the greatest nation on earth. I have no problem with other races putting forth their pride of race for whatever contributions they may have given to the construct of America.

I would tend to agree with you, but I don't see how liberals in general or those people I quoted in the OP as people willing to put their differences or put their vitriol for the White race aside in order to tackle those challenges you mentioned.

Tell that to the race baiters of our society such as an al sharpless and a Jessie jackhole that their black community doesn't deserve any less or any more than any other race of people. Tell them not to view race as being the defining issue of our time, and that rather than march in rallies for racial social justice in the Trevon Martin case, or to march in rallies for racial social justice in these voter oppression issues, that they would need to come together with the rest of America in addressing the more important issues of our time such as....immigration, employment, foreign affairs and energy policies etc.

Looks like you're falling into the same trap that we've seen lefties fall into time and time again. All men were created equal, but that of itself doesn't mean that all men are going to remain equal. I'm not suggesting that men become unequal as a result of anything someone else did to them, no, I suggesting that men become unequal because of what they did to themselves, or what they failed to accomplish all by their lonesome.

That phrase "out of many, one" was issued during a time when White men had fought to give us our Independence. So naturally the reference 'out of many, one' had to have been talking about White men only.

 

What is an I.Q.?

 

Intelligence Quotient