I am Chelsea Manning

I don't care what you WANT to believe or how you want to redefine terms. The reality is that if you don't have a penis, you are not a male. If you don't have a vagina, you are not a female. You can self identify however you like. The definitions don't change because you want them to fit your own self identity.

A cat is a cat no matter how much it considers itself a dog. Even if it barks at the mail man and chases it's tail, it's still a cat.

Nothing I have said is untrue.

 

IDENTITY is for the PERSON alone to decide. It is NOT your decision, or anyone else's to decide something so personal. You cannot legislate thought.

I could find probably a dozen links within a half hour to refute your claim that asexuality is the absence of either sexual organ. The mere fact that you're using species as an allegory shows that you have absolutely zero understanding of gender identity or sexual identity.

 

Gender does not = gender identity. If you have a penis, your gender is male. If you have a vagina, your gender is female. What goes on in your mind is entirely a different matter all together. No one is trying to legislate anything. No matter how badly someone with a penis wants to be a woman, by the fact that they have a penis, they are not a woman.

In my experience, those who claim to be able to find a dozen links to something but fail to provide any typically looked briefly and found none. Feel free to provide your link explaining how someone with no sexual organs is anything but asexual.

 

You don't get it, nor do you want to get it.

I didn't bother getting the links because I am in the middle of housework and am not at liberty to spend a half hour finding links for someone who would try to idiotically dismiss them as untruths. Hell, even the person your screenname refers to isn't so dense that when confronted with irrefutable knowledge, he maintains his original position. Once my housekeeping duties are finished, I will likely be heading to the store to get dinner.

I'm done arguing with you. I have a policy against arguing with people whom I consider stupid, and my definition of stupid is dependent on a willful lack of wanting to acquire new, or truthful knowledge, you've shown yourself to fit such a definition from my viewpoint.

 

LOL!!! "Irrefutable knowledge" because you said so? What about my position is wrong? Are you arguing that not everyone with a penis is a male and not everyone with a vagina is a female?

My position is the one that is coming from a point of truth. Yours is the one coming from believing what you want to believe.

You can claim links support your argument without providing them, claim that you just don't have the time to find them, yet you have time to sit on your computer and respond to my posts, and you can even call me stupid by your own definition (there's a shock that you have your own definition for other words as well). None of that changes the FACT that if you have a penis, you are a male.

For the record, doing house cleaning and shopping for groceries does not have any baring on your gender...I suspect that your intention was to subtly imply such.

 

Changing your race, Isn't that what Michael Jackson did? Made his skin white, married white women, had white kids?



River

 

OK... I'm going to interject and break up the tedium here...

I've got a couple things to say after reading all 13 pages of this for the first time. Manning has had gender identity issues since at least the time when (s)he was disussing the possibility of leaking the info with Adrian Llamo, which means (s)he most likely was telling the truth when (s)he brought up the subject during sentencing hearings. It's not a publicity stunt, nor is it an attempt at gaining leverage for appeal. It's been a condition (s)he's been suffering from for a long time. In the highly testosterone-charged environment of a US military war zone, this must have been a very difficult and trying situation that could deffinitely stress a person enough to reduce their ability to fully consider actions that may have been subconciously passive-agressive.

(S)he admits that (s)he broke the uniform code of military justice, and accepts the verdict, albeit reluctantly and without regrets for her actions. That's quite a brave thing to do (a good quality to have in the Armed Services,) especially when (s)he was treated horribly (solitary confinement and suicide watch for years straight) prior to the court marshal, and likely expects much of the same now that it's over. If anything it shows how desperately this condition is effecting her, since the added "mental health" issues are likely to guarantee a longer stretch on suicide watch.

In deciding how to act in relation to this issue, a more self-serving approach would have been to deny it.

Manning is not a traitor, and wasn't convicted as one. The aiding the enemy charge was one of the few acquittals, and after that (s)he was still facing 90 years, but only got 35. Obviously, from these facts, one can assume that those who align their perspectives with those of the prosecution don't respect the military's ability to meter out justice correctly, which could be construed as hypocritical and udercuts claims to patriotism and rationales for a stiffer punishment .

I don't understand though, after being treated the way (s)he was after the arrest and considering the information leaked, how (s)he would have any reasonable expectation of having her civil and human rights respected by the US military. Next to not demanding that operational security remain intact in publication of the leaks, making blatant public statements that expose jailers and inmates alike to angles to make her life even more miserable than it already is was the most ignorant thing (s)he's done. In every other aspect I consider her an intelligent an upstanding citizen that took her oath to protect this nation from threats BOTH foreign AND domestic more seriously than her fellow military members.

The question of whether or not the taxpayers will foot the bill is moot since it's never going to happen.

 

You are correct in all aspects of your post, Manning broke the law and was found guilty and will do time for it, that is not the issue of this thread.

Your sex is what you are born with, so is your gender and they are not always the same. The biggest sex organ we all have is between our ears, what is between our legs is just plumbing.


River

 

Understood. I just had to go through reams of closed-minded and uneducated posts in order to pick up a few intelligent statements. Since I'm pretty well versed on this story and have been following it since "Collateral Murder" or even a bit earlier, I figured I'd post some informed clarifications so that people would have some of the facts and wouldn't do her the disservice of claiming this was legal theater by a traitor trying to wiggle out from actions she wasn't taking responsibility for, and instead maybe get some perspective on where her motivations may have arisen from, and how her state of mind and loneliness around the issue of her gender identity while serving in the military may have unintentionally allowed for Adrian Llamo, who, as a convicted hacker seeking to get in better standing with the government, to coerce her into a reckless act that he could then rat her out for. I used the "(s)he" pronoun so that people who couldn't accept the concept of feeling born in the wrong body would possibly keep reading.

 

We choose to the situation we are born into. There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body. Bradly Manning may be attracted to men physically, and he can take all sorts of drug treatments and endure surgeries to change his anatomy, and if he does, that's his prerogative. That does not change the fact that he is right now a male. I am not bigoted against homosexuals nor against transsexuals. A person with a penis is a male. That's what it means to have a penis.

This is all a non-story to distract from the fact that Manning exposed a deep and widespread corruption of the governing apparatus of the United States. For that, he is a hero. None of the corruption, the crimes, the collusion, the lies, none of it has been investigated, none of it has lead to one charge against any public official nor against any of their corrupting puppet masters, yet Manning has been convicted to serve 35 years. What is everyone talking about? The definition of gender and the relevance of what's between your legs.

 

I want a species change operation. I am a gorilla trapped in a human body.