Organized religion

Scientology IS a religion. It's beliefs are heavily influenced by the teachings of British occultist Aleister Crowley.

[video=youtube;BYOMJjwFV4Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYOMJjwFV4Q&list=HL1383362659&feature=mh_lolz[/video]

 

Scientology is a criminal organisation - nothing else. I don't discuss about this any longer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxBpA7yvY3Q

 

We've seen enough of your reckless rambling and empty name-dropping. Here's a few more examples for you to practice your version of "like to see."

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other God; for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
Exodus 15:3 The Lord is a man of war.
Psalm 18:34 He teacheth my hands to war.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.

Gen 6:5-7 suggests that God conceived a faulty plan that failed, took out his wrath on the object of his failure by trying to drown all of it (that which he created in his own image, Gen 1:26,27), and later promised never to be so rotten again (Gen 8:21). Let's see you either reject this part of the Bible outright or come up with an interpretation that rescues God from such guilty misconduct. You can't do it without resorting to an esoteric process, i.e. finding a hidden meaning.

The Buddha said "If God permits so much evil to exist, He cannot be good, and if He is powerless to prevent it, He cannot be God."

Face it: you are outgunned. Crawl back to your fundie hideout.

 

Like militant atheists who worship "The God is Not Great" like it's The Koran (despite the numerous logical flaws in it)

I see little difference between militant atheists and religious fundamentalists, except for the 'supernatural' beliefs

 

They're obnoxious, but using the word worship is kind of strange. It's more like "God doesn't exist", but I agree it's no less annoying than theists who want to constantly through their beliefs in your face.

I suppose I just encounter far fewer of the latter and they certainly don't show up at my door unannounced, nor do they get preferential tax treatment.

 

Who is "we"?

So it seems to me Turkeys are not Americans and not every bird has a vote there - except he's an Hitchcock maybe.

Exactly. I think in this context: 'Who likes to be free should place the anchor of the own thoughts in god - and only in god."

What? ... One moment please ... 2nd book Mose ... chapter 13 ... oh - a song - wonderful ... the text of the third sentence is: "the Lord is a warrior" ... and it are even two songs: Not only Moses sang - Miriam - the prophet - sang too, while the women were playing timbrels and were dancing.

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Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the Lord: “I will sing to the Lord, for he is highly exalted. Both horse and driver he has hurled into the sea. “The Lord is my strength and my defense; he has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise him, my father’s God, and I will exalt him. The Lord is a warrior; the Lord is his name. Pharaoh’s chariots and his army he has hurled into the sea. The best of Pharaoh’s officers are drowned in the Red Sea. The deep waters have covered them; they sank to the depths like a stone. Your right hand, Lord, was majestic in power. Your right hand, Lord, shattered the enemy. “In the greatness of your majesty you threw down those who opposed you. You unleashed your burning anger; it consumed them like stubble. By the blast of your nostrils the waters piled up. The surging waters stood up like a wall; the deep waters congealed in the heart of the sea. The enemy boasted, ‘I will pursue, I will overtake them. I will divide the spoils; I will gorge myself on them. I will draw my sword and my hand will destroy them.’ But you blew with your breath, and the sea covered them. They sank like lead in the mighty waters. Who among the gods is like you, Lord? Who is like you - majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders? “You stretch out your right hand, and the earth swallows your enemies. In your unfailing love you will lead the people you have redeemed. In your strength you will guide them to your holy dwelling. The nations will hear and tremble; anguish will grip the people of Philistia. The chiefs of Edom will be terrified, the leaders of Moab will be seized with trembling, the people of Canaan will melt away; terror and dread will fall on them. By the power of your arm they will be as still as a stone - until your people pass by, Lord, until the people you bought pass by. You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance - the place, Lord, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, Lord, your hands established. “The Lord reigns for ever and ever.” When Pharaoh’s horses, chariots and horsemen went into the sea, the Lord brought the waters of the sea back over them, but the Israelites walked through the sea on dry ground. Then Miriam the prophet, Aaron’s sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women followed her, with timbrels and dancing. Miriam sang to them: “Sing to the Lord, for he is highly exalted. Both horse and driver he has hurled into the sea.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdFHGFkyew4
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And in the next sentece follows the famous english translation mistake where's written "Red Sea" instead of "reed sea". Also an interesting detail. The bible - what a wonderful book - what a wonderful reality.

Again a song ... oh - a song of my grandpa David and what a wonderful love song again. It starts: "For the director of music. Of David the servant of the Lord. He sang to the Lord the words of this song when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul. He said:"

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I love you, Lord, my strength. The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. I called to the Lord, who is worthy of praise, and I have been saved from my enemies. The cords of death entangled me; the torrents of destruction overwhelmed me. The cords of the grave coiled around me; the snares of death confronted me. In my distress I called to the Lord; I cried to my God for help. From his temple he heard my voice; my cry came before him, into his ears. The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because he was angry. Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet. He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind. He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him - the dark rain clouds of the sky. Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced, with hailstones and bolts of lightning. The Lord thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded. He shot his arrows and scattered the enemy, with great bolts of lightning he routed them. The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke, Lord, at the blast of breath from your nostrils. He reached down from on high and took hold of me; he drew me out of deep waters. He rescued me from my powerful enemy, from my foes, who were too strong for me. They confronted me in the day of my disaster, but the Lord was my support. He brought me out into a spacious place; he rescued me because he delighted in me. The Lord has dealt with me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands he has rewarded me. For I have kept the ways of the Lord; I am not guilty of turning from my God. All his laws are before me; I have not turned away from his decrees. I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin. The Lord has rewarded me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight. To the faithful you show yourself faithful, to the blameless you show yourself blameless, to the pure you show yourself pure, but to the devious you show yourself shrewd. You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty. You, Lord, keep my lamp burning; my God turns my darkness into light. With your help I can advance against a troop; with my God I can scale a wall. As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him. For who is God besides the Lord? And who is the Rock except our God? It is God who arms me with strength and keeps my way secure. He makes my feet like the feet of a deer; he causes me to stand on the heights. He trains my hands for battle; my arms can bend a bow of bronze. You make your saving help my shield, and your right hand sustains me; your help has made me great. You provide a broad path for my feet, so that my ankles do not give way. I pursued my enemies and overtook them; I did not turn back till they were destroyed. I crushed them so that they could not rise; they fell beneath my feet. You armed me with strength for battle; you humbled my adversaries before me. You made my enemies turn their backs in flight, and I destroyed my foes. They cried for help, but there was no one to save them - to the Lord, but he did not answer. I beat them as fine as windblown dust; I trampled them like mud in the streets. You have delivered me from the attacks of the people; you have made me the head of nations. People I did not know now serve me, foreigners cower before me; as soon as they hear of me, they obey me. They all lose heart; they come trembling from their strongholds. The Lord lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! He is the God who avenges me, who subdues nations under me, who saves me from my enemies. You exalted me above my foes; from a violent man you rescued me. Therefore I will praise you, Lord, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name. He gives his king great victories; he shows unfailing love to his anointed, to David and to his descendants forever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdFHGFkyew4
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Whoelse? There's only one god. But I see: I will close your overstressing meditationes with this very serios thoughts:

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This is what the Lord says to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of to subdue nations before him and to strip kings of their armor, to open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: I will go before you and will level the mountains; I will break down gates of bronze and cut through bars of iron. I will give you hidden treasures, riches stored in secret places, so that you may know that I am the Lord, the God of Israel, who summons you by name. For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. “You heavens above, rain down my righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness flourish with it; I, the Lord, have created it. “Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’? Woe to the one who says to a father, ‘What have you begotten?’ or to a mother, ‘What have you brought to birth?’ “This is what the Lord says - the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands? It is I who made the earth and created mankind on it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts. I will raise up Cyrus in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the Lord Almighty.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdFHGFkyew4
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What? Buddha was not able to say so. Okay ... maybe he was able to say so, although the concept of god was not known in his culture - could be - but he said not so. Leibniz and the so called theodizee are maybe a better adress for such thoughts. If I understand the Shakyamuni - the historical Buddha - in the right way then he would say to you now: "I said nothing about this. What I say is: There is suffer ..."

Even if I had a gun I had no idea what to do with this extremly dangerous sword for idiots.

I will never understand how it works that propagandists of crazy political theories are able to destroy every clear expression - like "fundament" for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcu1iMHjJA

 

This thread is about Organized Religion.

Now I am a person who is agnostic and I gauge the veracity of things by using the Scientific Method and by using this method anyone can determine that there is neither evidence to prove or disprove the existence of any...GOD.

BUT...using this method we can disprove many aspects of beliefs and dogma of Organized Religion.

For some people Religious Belief is a GOOD thing....for others it is not necessary.

But what really P!$$@# ME OFF....is when a Religious Person of Faith assumes that it is their duty to try to convince me that their beliefs are the right beliefs and if anyone does not believe as their Organized Religion has told them then that person is somehow lacking or incomplete.

If the is a GOD....and that is a BIG if....it would most likely not be anything that any organized religion thinks it is.

AboveAlpha

 

In your opinion, despite being an agnostic, which religion makes the most sense?

- - - Updated - - -

Religions have spiritual and supernatural undertones. Which Scientology has.

 

There are zealots in everything. It's like, okay, there's the Great Pyramid of ancient Egypt, and either you believe it's a tomb for Pharaoh or you don't even believe it exists at all, those are your only options, now choose. Never mind that all evidence points to something else entirely, you're just not allowed to consider that because it might hurt some British fancy lad's feelings or whatever. That's basically what this topic is about, in a nutshell.

 

Because they're wrong about the reality of spirituality. And they are about acquiring power. Aside from that, not much.

 

Specific to the "problem" of organized religion.

According to Karl Marx, religion is the opiate of the masses. Marx argued that in order to bring about revolutionary change, mainly a dissertation against capitalism, some level of brutality is required. Religiously based morals get in the way of achieving this change....

Basically, to paraphrase...

We're going to need to kill a lot of people, cause a lot of suffering in order to enact social reform on such a vast scale as rejecting capitalism. Religion is a road block.

We must first, destroy religion, then "educate" the people that brutality is a means to an end, and the desired end is the destruction of the capitalist system.

Basically my friend...as history teaches us...those who want to rid the World of religion?
Are not good people...good people are what stands in their way.

As a result you'll hear lots of deception, out and out lies..covering the true motivations of the anti-religious.
Some 100,000,000 were sent to their graves and gulags...various regimes which followed Marxist ideologies...we have good reason to distrust them and in fact...
should distrust them.

The doctrine viewing religion as the opiate of the masses, typically leads to masses of something to replace it.... graves.

 

The Lord wants praise, and man must furnish it, or else bring on the wrath and fury of Jehova scorned. Suffering is the result of human sin, not the reality of existence, and warrants divine retribution. God's creation, matter, is evil but He is morally perfect and infinite.

You really eat this stuff up don't you. Santa Claus comes once a year too. How many stricken aircraft did He ever prevent from crashing? How many ill-fated ships did He ever save from sinking? How many Jews did He save from the gas chambers?

This is obscuration of truth and enslavement of the mind to priestly rule, in other words brainwashing. There is a deeper truth underneath it all, but you'll never see it.

 

That is quite possibly the worst interpretation of Marx's meaning that I've ever read. He didn't mean that religious morals get in the way. He meant that religion comforts people and makes them docile to the wrongs of the world. Why fight for the rights of others if some god is the only one who is supposed to judge and punish? Indeed, if this world is just some tempering transient state, then who are you to try to change it? And why do anything that may cause you further suffering now, just to help your fellow man, if you can skate by until death in this life and live out the rest of eternity in Heaven?

I'm not surprised someone who is religious would disagree with that idea, but the level to which you've managed to twist the phrase's meaning is impressive. So few people bother the read surrounding lines of that phrase:

It doesn't get much clearer than that. Life is hard and unfair, but you've been fooled into thinking that it's okay. Wake up and fix it. I don't agree with Marx's answer to the problem, but I certainly agree with his ideas on religion.

 

First: I am an agnostic catholic - You are an agnostic atheist. Agnosticism is a philosophy - not a religion.

Second: Serios religions are in general sense-giving institutions.

Third: I would be for example a Jew if one of my grandfathers would had been female and his wife would had been male. I would love it to be a Jew - specially a Jew who is breaking form time to time the jewish rules - who is not happy about to do so and who tries again to understand the own people, religion and culture. So you can see: I never could beome a convertite - because convertits are in most cases very straigth and more papal than the pope himselve. Nevertheless: In general I think the Jews have the best rule: Everyone should be educated first in the religion of his mother.

Forth: Now my answer: For me makes the combination of Buddhism and Christianity the greatest sense. But the way I'm meditating about is really very difficult to explain - because it's often only feeling. A short time ago for example I thought about the common elements between the rebirth of buddhists and the preexistance of human beings in general. We know that we are preexistant if we accept that something was able to deny our own existance some thousand, some million or some billion years ago. But we are not able to know a lot o things about our own future - althoug everywhere all around us is the preexistance of all futures. We know some things - for example the coordinates where the earth will be in a million years - on the other side we are not even able to understand today any other human being really, because everyone is as complex as we are on our own. And if we understand what someone said to us yesterday then he's today on another newer level. Panta rei.

Fifth: Whatever. I'm wearing by the way from time to time - nearly always - a cross with five green Stones - on the hidden side is a silverstar of David.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXSdYKlMuMM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ

 

Nice to hear from you what I would believe if I would be not you and you had to think about.

Yeah - Santa Is great. Everyone loves Santa.

Nice form of antisemitism. In the army of the "Santa State" fought lots of Christians and Jews for me. Don't think you are able to impress anyone on this planet who's really able to think independent only a litte with your enemyship against Santa Claus. Santa lives - a minimum as long as I live.

What?

I will never see you secrets because you secrets are not existing. So easy is it. But Santa lives really how everyone can show to you. That's an open secret for everyone who knows something about history and who kept the pure heart to communicate over the pure heart of Santa with gods true heart.

[video=youtube;vwHEqx_3BYE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwHEqx_3BYE[/video]

 

Scientology is based off of occultism. That's why I consider it to be a religion.

[video=youtube;xBfMjHEw8Zw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBfMjHEw8Zw[/video]

 

Scientology is a criminal organisation - nothing else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06H_6oI4EK4

 

You are right and he's right too. The ideas of Marx - made in a warm house in London while drinking some warm cups of tea - caused later a very cold culture shock in China. Mao murdered about a hundred million people of all religions - and today he's the hero of China and they introduced his wrong system of "self-critics" now in this days again in China. They try to fight against the peopel who are publishing corruption as well as they try to fight against corruption itselve. I don't know how long it will need now until the first people will die on "self-critics" - what had indeed nothing to do with self-critics "per definitionem". But who cares about definitions during revolutions? War o terroro is a similira phenomenon: The USA and torture is for example an absurde paradox for a state founded in the tradition of the enligthtenment. And? Is the USA a state without torture?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-OKtqJGaW0

 

God didn't create anything evil, it became evil through beings who misused their free will, like you do.

The vast majority of people now and always are 'brainwashed', but you're not, huh? Crazy......

 

The Bible has many references to matter being evil, but you can't realize it if you can't penetrate the veil, the literary face value, a process that is out of your league.

That's right. I can overhaul my position on religion, philosophy, and science anytime it is warranted by an upgrade in my perspective and knowledge, and have done so a few times in my life. That's more than I can say for the many one-track minds so often revealed here.

 

So generally speaking, how would you say Christians are doing at refuting his claim by their actions?

He is not in a position to guarantee the eternal well-being of those children, and neither is any earthly court in a position to credibly question such a guarantee from the Creator.

 

Cite? That sounds like the Gnostic heresy.

There are lots of Christians who did the same thing, and became Chrisitans after looking at the evidence.

 

You have demonstrated that you think hidden meanings do not exist because either you can't fathom them or you refuse to consider the possibilities. In other words: denial. That way you can maintain a sensible grasp of Christianity's superficial yarns.

I find your embrace of Buddhism and layman's Christianity a bit of a paradox. Maybe there's hope for you yet.

Steiner's Anthroposophy is not a legitimate part of Theosophy. The latter is about 1900 years older. Steiner split off from Theosophy. The older roots go back to the Analogeticists, the Neoplatonists of Alexandria, particularly Philo Judaeus, a contemporary of Christ, and later, Angelus Silesius of the Middle Ages.

At least one defector from Steiner's vast "empire" describes it as a cult that uses harsh controlling practices and severe behavior modification.

The same source of info accuses Theosophy of originating from Luciferian Gnosticism. That's unlikely, but regardless, their present store of literature does not contain any tinkering with the dark side.