Quickly...are there any "pro-lifers" who believe "Abortion is murder" and are willing

Prove me wrong..."change the script"....BUT remain true to your claim that "Abortion is murder" and logical, basic questions that you will be asked based on that.

BTW, I am confident in my prediction....so much so that I'll be interested to see how you answer Question #4....before we even get to 1, 2, 3.


Sweetchuck....do you favor capital punishment for murderers? Or life in prison?

 

Prove what wrong? I'm not sure I follow you TBH, your sort of rambling and babbling.

It really depends. I was once in favor of capital punishment pretty staunchly. My position has been evolving over time, I'm undecided at this point.

On one hand I think a certain element of our society cannot be rehabilitated, not with the resources we are willing to put toward it. So what do you do with them? They are a drain on society. Big question. And, on the other hand I don't trust our legal system. I have zero faith in our justice system. None.

I kinda like the idea of forced labor camps TBH but progressive beds are shat at this suggestion.

 

Fine, again, we're going to work backwards.

If abortion were made illegal and considered "murder"....would you support sentencing a woman who self-induced an abortion at 3 weeks to ....life in prison in a forced labor camp? Or life in prison in general?



BTW, I find it particularly ironic ...your support of the term "forced labor"...given the subject of this Forum.

 

Fair question, I don't know. I would have to consider it, it's not an opinion that I can readily give because to be honest I haven't given it a lot of thought. It's one of those matters that needs to progress to a decision, not one made from the hip.

Fair enough, but I was half joking.

Which means I'm half serious also.

I do know one thing, the more liberal our society becomes the more morally deteriorated it also becomes.

 

That's a cop out....the scenarios is that it IS a criminal act....


So do you really consider it murder and want the woman jailed for life or executed....which is it????

 

Sorry, it's not a cop-out, it's a hypothetical.

Like this one - hypothetically speaking, let's say there is a God. He appears to you and says "you know, this whole abortion thing - you're all sucking turds in hell for this one" - now what do YOU do?

Edit: In fact, this is kinda the Christianity's position on the subject already, I don't know if you're a Christian or not.

 

NOT all of Christianity support that position. Most mainline churches support reproductive choice.

http://rcrc.org/homepage/about/

PRO-FAITH. PRO-FAMILY. PRO-CHOICE.

The mission of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice is to be the leading religious voice for reproductive justice in the country.

When seeing someone who is clearly religious – whether they’re wearing indicators of their faith such as a clerical collar, a crucifix, a kippah, or even a t-shirt with a religious message on it – you might assume that person does not believe a woman should have access to compassionate abortion care, or comprehensive sexuality education, or even contraception.

RCRC is proof that you would likely be mistaken.

For over 40 years, RCRC has been a voice for reproductive choice, and has been active in working with women and men – especially those at the margins – at the intersection of faith, policy and our reproductive lives. Supportive clergy have been giving sermons about the moral agency of women to make decisions about their lives for decades, as well as praying quietly with women when actually making those decisions. We have stood arm-in-arm with proponents of comprehensive sexuality education, worked for a version of the Affordable Care Act that included contraception with no co-pays, and were instrumental in bringing faithful voices of those at the pulpit, in pews and in communities across the country to issues such as the Violence Against Women Act, the approval of Plan B pills and telemedicine for abortions, and for the ability of servicewomen to access abortion care while serving our country. We believe in faith expressed in action.

Solidly grounded in a deep belief that our work should be sourced, implemented and led by the people it affects, we are building a grassroots movement of people who understand that it’s time for religious people who believe in reproductive justice to stand up.

We hope you’ll join us!

 

You're probably right but as a recovering Catholic I've lost faith in organized religion decades ago.

They just make (*)(*)(*)(*) up to suit their personal agendas.

You're still allowed to address the question which still stands open, BTW.

 

I think most pregnant women wanting an abortion would be willing to face a future hell rather than the current one, i.e. that of being pregnant unwillingly. But if God says that to me personally, I'm gonna argue, that should be obvious.

 

An eternity of damnation and suffering vs. one raising your own flesh, blood and being?

...eww-k

 

From the post of mine you quoted but were to afraid to address:


"""So do you really consider it murder and want the woman jailed for life or executed....which is it????""


Simple question, why can't you answer it?

 

You actually believe that bunk?!!! About eternal damnation??? How silly!

Fine if YOU want to live in fear but others get to choose what they want to do with the life they're actually living, REAL life.

 

'Murder' is often vague & is a charged word. 'Wrongful death' is a more useful term. The point here is not to quibble about terms, but to provide justice. As i stated before, in your hypothetical situation, where abortion is now illegal, prosecution of this would depend on many factors:
1. The wording of the law.
2. The availability of evidence.

Abortion would not be an easy crime to prosecute, just because of the nature of all the factors involved. But this is legal issue, not a moral one. The arguments from the anti abortion crowd are moral, not legal. Many want it to be illegal, which would open up a can of worms in the enforcement. THAT is a separate issue, unrelated to the moral issue of wrongful death. You are attempting to take the complexities & difficulties of the legal problems of enforcement & applying it to the moral parts. It is a clever ruse, but it is not a logical argument FOR abortion, as the wrongful death, moral issue is being skirted, & it is at the core of the debate. In any social moral code, enforcement is secondary, & there are often problems in that area. Proving corruption in politicians, for example, is difficult, even though we all know it is there. But proving someone 'willfully' did something, with full knowledge that the law was being broken is the tricky part.

This thread is NOT some grand rebuttal that destroys the anti abortion argument. It skirts it, by deflecting with enforcement problems in some undefined, hypothetical law. The central issue of the wrongful death of the unborn is ignored, while attention is brought on the vagaries of gathering evidence in some sketchy prosecution scenario.

 

I can answer it.

It depends.

It depends on how you word the law. It depends on the mitigating circumstances in the trial. It depends on the evidence & how compelling it is. Under your scenario, IF abortion is illegal, AND there is irrefutable proof that some doctor deliberately, with full knowledge of his actions, performed this abortion, AND the Law clearly stated that such an act is punishable by life imprisonment or death, THEN the law should be enforced. IF the same law charged the woman as an accomplice, or some other crime of complicity, THEN she also would be charged, depending on HOW you word your hypothetical law, in your hypothetical fantasy world. Her punishment would depend on the severity of the crime, as determined by the collective, in the crafting of the law. THAT is the due process part, & is a completely separate issue to the moral one of wrongful death of the unborn.

 

And thus my point is proven. Either a "pro-lifer" has to admit they don't really think "abortion is murder"...

OR they have to go YOUR route and say "Yes, I'd lock up a woman in prison for life for self-inducing an abortion at 3 weeks"......and thus prove the radical extremism in the "pro-life" movement.

I thank you, sir.

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God doesn't "hate abortion", SC. In fact, in the Old Testament he ORDERED the killing of babies and older children.

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"Oddly" I rarely see "pro-lifers" scream "ABORTION IS....WRONGFUL DEATH!!!!!" at their rallies or in their blog postings.



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No doctor....the woman self-induces at 3 weeks a pregnancy the result of consensual sex where contraception failed. In the "perfect world" of "pro-lifers"....what punishment would you give her?

Specific example.....see if you can give a specific answer. As we've seen, it'd be a rarety.

 

Quote some verses of the Old Testament where God ordered that.

 

radical extreme?

punishing the taking of life of another human being is neither radical or extreme.

We punish (most of the time) for wrongful death of another human.

Despite being a flamebait thread, and condoned I might add, it simply points out again that leftists celebrate the death of the unborn human child.

I have little patience for people of such despicable viewpoints and low regard for human life.

Sadly what's ironic is those fighting to kill babies are here because they were not killed themselves.

 

You got it kid....

"Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”--- 1 Samuel 15:3

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Sec....TRY to answer my direct questions with direct answers. I DARE YOU.

1. Do you believe abortion is "murder"...same as pre-meditated first-degree murder...or is it a "lesser crime"?

2. Do you support the death penalty or life-in-prison for convicted murderers.

3. If abortion were made illegal....what punishment would you want meted out to a woman who self-induced an abortion at 3 weeks gestation?

 

Gorny, perhaps you missed the words I posted


radical extreme?

punishing the taking of life of another human being is neither radical or extreme.

We punish (most of the time) for wrongful death of another human.

Despite being a flamebait thread, and condoned I might add, it simply points out again that leftists celebrate the death of the unborn human child.

I have little patience for people of such despicable viewpoints and low regard for human life.

Sadly what's ironic is those fighting to kill babies are here because they were not killed themselves.

 

Perhaps YOU missed my direct questions and asking for DIRECT answers....and my dare.

I'll repeat them-

1. Do you believe abortion is "murder"...same as pre-meditated first-degree murder...or is it a "lesser crime"?

2. Do you support the death penalty or life-in-prison for convicted murderers.

3. If abortion were made illegal....what punishment would you want meted out to a woman who self-induced an abortion at 3 weeks gestation?

See, I'm betting you won't give me straight answers....because you see the way it will paint you.

Either...

A. disengenuous about your CLAIM that you believe abortion is "murder"

or B. shown for a monster.

 

Why are you calling pro lifers monsters, just for supporting laws against abortion?

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http://carm.org/god-of-old-testament-a-monster

Second, in the case of Amalek, it has already been shown that the entire culture had been corrupted by the sin of the adults. From the perspective of eternity, there was no hope for any child who was left behind. Scripture implies that young children who die go to be with the Lord (cf. 2 Sam. 12:23), so while some children may have been killed in war, they were ultimately saved by God from becoming what their parents were.

 

I believe that I answered all of your questions with a simple sentence

I have little patience for people with such despicable viewpoints who hold little regard for human life.

The above sentence is clear, concise and to the point

 

No, I'm saying they don't want to appear to be monsters....by honestly saying they'd execute a woman who induced an abortion at 3 weeks....even thought that would be CONSISTANT with those "pro-lifers" who say "Abortion is murder" and support capital punishment for murder.

If they are HONEST in their beliefs.....even they know it makes them look like wackos.


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Note...you couldn't deny what I originally said. You can't. God ordered the killing of babies and children in 1st Samuel. You can try to say "They were better off dead"....but you CAN NOT deny what I said, can you?

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No, it's a dodge...and you'll continue to dodge. Because you cannot give me direct answers to direct questions....because you know "how it'll make you look"....even though the answers would be consistant with what you CLAIM you believe....but either don't believe....or are too embarrassed to honestly declare. Once again-


1. Do you believe abortion is "murder"...same as pre-meditated first-degree murder...or is it a "lesser crime"?

2. Do you support the death penalty or life-in-prison for convicted murderers.

3. If abortion were made illegal....what punishment would you want meted out to a woman who self-induced an abortion at 3 weeks gestation

 

I have little patience for people with a despicable viewpoint that it is OK to kill unborn babies.

I will not engage in nonsense where you try to skirt the issue that we're discussing killing human life. It sickens me that you seem to find humor in the topic and sickens me even more that a moderator has "liked" some of the posts

If you were sincere about your position, you would abort yourself and then come back and tell us all how wonderful it was.

 

I gave a rational answer to your 'gotcha! question. That is all i can do. If there is no law, & no evidence, there can be no crime or prosecution. You seem to be baiting me to suggest some tyrannical punishment for something without due process, but that is the left's style, not mine.