Want an Example of What Socialism Is Today?

Well, compared to what Obama did, they were relatively fiscal conservatives.

 

What did you think not collecting taxes and spending like drunken sailors leads to?

 

Socialism is only good for an elite few. It sucks royally for the masses who become nothing but peons who can never rise above their social status no matter how hard they work or try. Whenever a dictator is the ruling faction, the government always becomes corrupted because there's no checks and balances to keep him/her responsible and honest. Nor is there anyone who has the power to slap their hands when they get too far out in greedy land. While those running dictatorships live like kings, everyone else is left wasting away enduring a meager lifestyle that usually runs short of everyday necessities such as FOOD. Although Hollywood inflated, The Hunger Games movie reminded me a lot of a socialistic type of government.

 

You're either confusing Socialism with Fascism or Communism, I'm not sure which.

 

But that's the point, why develope anything else while sedated by socialism ?, capitalism nurishes entrepreneurship in fact it relies on it, socialists tend to diminish profits making inovations feeble.

 

Both have problems because both relies on ppl and ppl are corrupt, diffrence is if you work with mud - mud is what you get left with, if you work with gold.....

 

Nah can barely distinguish communism from socialism. Both forms keep people down and operate under a centralized government who is run by a dictator calling all the shots. And because these leaders have no one to answer to, the door to corruption swings wide open. All one has to do is research past and present dictators which many times get overthrown and ousted to realize this is not a good life for the average person.

http://www.conservapedia.com/List_of_dictators

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/21/144069136/2011-has-been-a-rough-year-for-dictators

http://reason.com/archives/2017/04/04/from-socialism-to-dictatorship

http://www.governmentvs.com/en/socialism-vs-dictatorship/comparison-27-33-0

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/10/latin-america-left-40-year-timeline

 

There is no question that capitalist law protects capitalism. I'm talking reality and fact. The reality of the facts is that the workers do the work that made the profits that paid for that equipment and all the excess was taken as well by the legal owners of the business under capitalist law. So I have zero problem with the workers confiscating the equipment after their labor value was confiscated from them for so many years.

 

I think Germany is a better example of middle ground between capitalism and socialism.
Workers in a company have a say, they are well paid, companies are profitable, and their economy is doing great.

 

The reality of the situation is that under capitalism for the last 75 years we have seen the people make great gains in civil rights and other social improvements only to have the capitalist status quo take back as much as they could, bit by bit. We have to keep fighting for what we have won, and now we are facing tens of millions of people having their healthcare taken from them. That is criminal. We are facing the loss of our technological lead in the world, our jobs go overseas, our education system deteriorating because capitalists don't need us to be educated, our incarceration rate being higher than any other country, our police being militarized and becoming an enemy of the people instead of our protector, our retirement protections being stripped away, . . . . and we keep fighting and losing.

And all the while many have worked hard to "tame" capitalism and make it work for us. It doesn't work. How long will we continue to be fooled into preserving a system whose time has come to an end?

 

Yes, that is exactly what I mean.

Also this is why no one takes you seriously. You bring about a random company and state that you think that model can be successfully compiled over an entire nation. Let me give you a hint, if the 74,000 people do not do their job, they are booted out. Should we do that to the unemployed now? Your point is honestly laughable at best.

I find it also hilarious that your big go to is a company of less than 75,000 employees in multiple countries, that is minuscule and useless on a large scale.

You ignore the dozens and hundreds of examples showing that socialism simply does not work on a large scale. We currently have socialist "things" involved in our government and places like Scandinavian countries have more socialist "things" since I know that is every socialists go to when they need an example.

If you want to add more socialistic programs, go for it, heck I may even agree on a couple. But to try to say flat out "Socialism Works" is a joke and there isn't anyone anywhere who believes that. Topics and ideas like this are just flat out impossible to make work

 

THIS is the correct way for a socialist to try to change things to "the way they want"

 

Wow, yeah this is pretty much what you should have written in the first post. It would allow everyone to stop trying to debate with you and understand that you simply hate the US

 

But Germany is at risk of slipping back into "conservative" politics.

"I woke up to the reality of how decisively to the right Germany has moved. The Liberals and Pirates are out, the Greens are leaderless, the SPD (Social Democratic Party) is reeling; other than Merkel, the only clear winner was the equally conservative, protectionist ideology of the newly formed Alternative für Deutschland."

"My sense is very much that a vote for Merkel translated to a vote for not having to engage in politics. The future is open. We could decide what we wanted our future to look like. We chose not to."

"The election was a monumental defeat for her previous coalition partners, the Free Democratic Party, who were destroyed by being in government with the CDU (Christian Democratic Union)."

http://www.theeuropean-magazine.com/juliane-mendelsohn/7470-merkels-conservative-germany

The "middle ground between capitalism and socialism" consists of a continuing battle between capitalist forces and socialist forces of the people. I can't figure out why anyone would settle for such an arrangement rather than finally and adequately shutting down the capitalist forces and destroying their hope to once again exploit the people for private profits by outlawing new private businesses and private profiting and controlling those that remain.

 

You guys (far left people) simply moved the world too Left too quickly.

You are now seeing and will continue to see, the backlash of those on the right and those in the center who disagree with going so far to the left.


This quote especially makes you literally of the 1/2% of those furthest to the left/

"I can't figure out why anyone would settle for such an arrangement rather than finally and adequately shutting down the capitalist forces and destroying their hope to once again exploit the people for private profits by outlawing new private businesses and private profiting and controlling those that remain."

Why do you have such a hard time grasping that people think radically different than you do?

 

And that shows how little you know of this. Nay-sayers like to say there is no large, lasting example of socialism because they fail. So I mention Mondragon as an example and nay-sayers change their song to "that's just a random company" and insignificant in a world of capitalism.

Mondragon shows the principles can work and last, long-term. And the huge numbers of other thriving worker cooperatives around the world, and the increasing rate of formation of such co-ops, show a trend. Several states now have laws incentivizing worker co-ops. And what does that prove? It proves that it is a relatively new concept and it is growing, so it's just a bit too early to declare it a failure.

 

So hating our failures with health care and incarceration and jobs going overseas and declining education and militarized police is something you oppose. Unlike you, most patriotic Americans want such things corrected and prevented. It's a sad day when we see fellow Americans protecting the existence of such problems and standing against progress. I guess Russia beckons.

 

No, you are twisting it again.

Blaming all of that nonsense on capitalism is a joke. It goes against the individual freedom that is believed in throughout the United States. You can try to twist it all you want by blaming each of our problems on capitalism, but the majority of people simply find that laughable at best.

 

Yup, worker cooperatives, they're great and they definitely work.

I will repeat myself AGAIN, this does not work on a governmental level.

You never answered my question about people who refuse to work, at Mondragon they are kicked out. Can we do that with everyone in the US? Since you are obviously trying to equate the two systems with the hope of supplanting the way the US works to a Socialist doctrine.

 

Shocker, attacking me personally.

Now I am "Unpatriotic, want a declining education system, a militarized police force and Russian citizenship"

All because I disagree with your politics.

Who is the Nazi again?

 

Poor health care and militarized police are hallmarks of socialism. Just look at Venezuela and North Korea, and the Soviet Union.

 

Actually, not fast enough. That is the problem, except to pro-capitalist extremists.

LOL!!! Quite the opposite. There is now a sudden new interest in socialism exploding. Many more now want to discuss it and understand it than at any other time in the past 60 years. And it continues to grow. The backlash you will see soon is one against the sudden lurch to the right brought about by liars and crooks like the Tea Party and the extreme left that paved its way to the WH with lies and distortions.

...in your estimation. But we already dealt with that.

Interesting that this is really a question that should be directed at you.

 

If capitalism unfairly exploits workers, why do so many people in the working class and middle class reject communism?

 

You keep talking about WHAT YOU WANT, not what is actually happening. The fact that you cannot understand this delusion is very strange.

You may not like that it didn't move left enough, but that it IS moving to the right again is BECAUSE IT WENT LEFT TOO QUICKLY.

I understand you are upset at this change, but this should show you that you are not in the majority.

As to that last part, come on man, quit the mellow drama.

I have been very understanding of your point of view, simply stating what is actually going on in the world. More and more people are going more and more to the right, I disagree that more are going towards socialism, heck you are the one that said Germany is going to the Right.

Are you taking that back now?

Meanwhile, you are sitting here personally attacking me because I am pointing out realities that you simply dont like.

You should be embarrassed at how poorly you are trying to twist the conversation

 

Communism would be great, if it worked...

Unfortunately we live in a world of shared resources, until this changes Star Trek style, there will always be the "have's" and the "have not's"

Communism or Socialism simply puts all the power in the hands of the Bureaucrats. Capitalism puts it in charge of business owners.

Take your pick really, IMO, Capitalism is the better option as more business owners have a positive effect on a nation than do more bureaucrats.

Of course you get the hard core socialist like mr pooch above who simply hates the system and anyone involved in it.