The sole goal of the DNC for the future should be........

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee Atwater, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I would, thank you.
    America is not a "majority rules" democracy, it never was, and it was never intended to be such.

    America, via the Electoral Collage is a Constitutional republic, and a representative democracy.

    The founders never intended the small(minority) populations of the country's rural states to be ruled by the majority populations in urban cities, and highly-populated states, and so they set up a system "see Electoral College reference above" to avoid exactly the sort of "largest mob rules" situation you, and your fellow Democrats, are clamoring for.

    Those founder guys were smart cookies.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  2. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a grotesquely flawed concept.

    The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists

    "Virginia emerged as the big winner—the California of the Founding era—with 12 out of a total of 91 electoral votes allocated by the Philadelphia Constitution, more than a quarter of the 46 needed to win an election in the first round. After the 1800 census, Wilson’s free state of Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any other slave state) bought or bred, the more electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave state to free any blacks who then moved North, the state could actually lose electoral votes.

    If the system’s pro-slavery tilt was not overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of the Constitution’s first 36 years, a white slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.

    Southerner Thomas Jefferson, for example, won the election of 1800-01 against Northerner John Adams in a race where the slavery-skew of the electoral college was the decisive margin of victory: without the extra electoral college votes generated by slavery, the mostly southern states that supported Jefferson would not have sufficed to give him a majority. As pointed observers remarked at the time, Thomas Jefferson metaphorically rode into the executive mansion on the backs of slaves."
    https://time.com/4558510/electoral-college-history-slavery/
     
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  3. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Smart, yes. Able to foresee how the appeasement to southern slave states would pervert democracy, no.
    https://time.com/4558510/electoral-college-history-slavery/

    "America is not a "majority rules" democracy, it never was, and it was never intended to be such." A statement that is self-evidently bizarre seeing as every other elected office in the country as well as the passage of legislation depends on the rule of the majority.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Enter the 12th Amendment, which allowed each party to designate one candidate for president and a separate candidate for vice president. The amendment’s modifications of the electoral process transformed the Framers’ framework, enabling future presidential elections to be openly populist and partisan affairs featuring two competing tickets. It is the 12th Amendment’s Electoral College system, not the Philadelphia Framers’, that remains in place today. If the general citizenry’s lack of knowledge had been the real reason for the Electoral College, this problem was largely solved by 1800. So why wasn’t the entire Electoral College contraption scrapped at that point?"
     
  5. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    So what you're saying is we need to cancel the Electoral College today, so democracy won't be perverted 200 years ago?

    We need to return the country to realizing the basic principle on which it was founded, majority rule, by cancelling the Electoral College, which was a founding-principle Constitutional institution that was set up for the express purpose of preventing majority rule?

    Your contradictions are quite contradictory.

    You sound like one of those "The only way to save our Constitution is to tear it to shreds!" people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  6. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    Follow the money and you’ll find the root to most issues or the source rather than the symptoms.
     
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  7. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In other words, the way the majority is being trampled now.
     
  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do realize the Constitution has been amended numerous times, right? Am I to believe you think only white property owning men should be allowed to vote as established by the same founders you seem to believe were omnipotent?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  9. Capn Awesome

    Capn Awesome Well-Known Member

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    The country was not founded on majority rule. Majority rule is just just a way to tyranize minority opinion.

    The bill of rights isn't an expression of democracy but a protection against it. These are the things you cannot vote on.

    Besides its a myth that the electoral college favors Republicans. 20,000 votes more in Iowa and John Kerry also would of won the electoral college and lost the popular vote.
     
  10. NightOwl

    NightOwl Banned

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    Does the OP really not understand basic political science or what? This is stuff you learn in 7th grade civics class.
     
  11. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    That was exactly my point- you don't want to "return the country to realizing the basic Constitutional principles on which it was founded". You want to amend it the Constitution- rip out the parts you don't like, write in your own rules with a Sharpie, etc...

    Stop pretending like to want to stay true to the principles of a document that you want to tear up, and glue back together to your own liking.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  12. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    This really is American Constitution 101-level stuff he's not grasping.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  13. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    So have your Congress people put forth a proposition for an Amendment. You only need 38 States to ratify.
     
  14. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Hmm.. and yet here you are eroding gun rights, civil discourse, right to assemble, right to be protected from unwarranted government abuse or spying, etc. I mean, you're on record for all of these, and you have the temerity to call anyone else out? Yes, you are the minority that demand that the mob rise up to cover for your own distaste of personal freedom and or liberties.
     
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  15. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Stop pretending reforming a system designed to appease the concerns of slave owners at a time when there was concern over maintaining unity among the colonies requires shredding the Constitution. Hyperbole is getting you nowhere.
     
  16. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gun rights are what Congress and the SC say they are. If those bodies, in recognition of the desire of the majority, decide the public's health is jeopardized by your ownership of a semiautomatic weapon (as they did a number of years ago) nothing in the 2nd Amendment prevents it.
     
  17. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you understood how the states were apportioned EC votes you wouldn't believe that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  18. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Abolishing the EC can be done without a constitutional amendment.
     
  19. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Yikes.... it's like there was an edit or something, and you still got it wrong. These amendments aren't just suggestions, no matter how much you don't like it. Folks will still be able to bear arms. There might be some ability to restrict what that refers to, but it doesn't change the fundamental right. As we have seen, you might want to be super careful about asserting a "public health" argument. You might get laughed at.
     
  20. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    You're all over the place.

    You started by claiming you want to get back to the basic principles of the founders.
    And you got that dead wrong, because your "majority rule" as a basic founding principle statement displayed about a complete misunderstanding, or complete ignorance, of the purpose of the Electoral College.

    Just a few posts later, after you figured out what the Electoral College was really about, then you suddenly wanted nothing more than to "amend", "reform" and basically abandon the basic principles upon which America was founded.
    That was a sweet 180 degree bootlegger turn you did there, dude.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  21. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The SC and Congress are free to make the rules around gun ownership. If they weren't gun nuts would own machine guns legally. What about that still confuses you?
     
  22. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You act as though I should care about your opinion. One you've already expressed in ineffectual ways previously.
     
  23. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    democracy is not "the mob".

    every election in this country, except for President, is done by simple majority rule.

    so much for your "mob".
     
  24. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Your willingness to erode the rights of the people. Still get's me every time. And the fact that you are so willing to not discuss the other examples, like limiting free association or speech, or limiting governments ability to snoop, I mean there's a pretty long list. The framers though of folks, just like you when they wrote the document, and they called what you're trying to do now, evil, with their product being the cure for it. That you cannot accept that, well, that's priceless.....
     
  25. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I write in plain english. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
     

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