Let the investigations play out.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Nightmare515, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While I admire minimalism, to whom or what is your OMG directed?
     
  2. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know you're spewing shyte when even Fox News cuts you off for lying.
     
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  4. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did say "BOTH SIDES". Also, Republicans aren't the ones that loot and burn when they don't get their way, so yes, the emphasis is of course on the democrats (the way more violent of the 2 parties) but the same laws apply to BOTH parties
     
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  5. Sleep Monster

    Sleep Monster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, RWNJs don't riot, they just walk into churches, mosques, and synagogues and start firing their weapons. Or they hatch plots to kidnap, try, and execute politicians they don't like. Etc.

    I double-dog dare you to compare body counts.
     
  6. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Who is afraid?
     
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  7. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    All of which are the exact reasons why I argue that the investigations need to be allowed to take place. I was out of town for work and pretty isolated during election day and the days after and spent the past few days catching up as to what exactly is going on. What I see are a few claims that I do believe require some sort of explanation at the very least. Biden receiving pretty much one sided help from the media and social media is one thing, they are private companies and while it's distasteful for them to use their mass information platforms to back a certain candidate they are free to do that. Believing that actual election ballots were fraudulent to the tune of anywhere from hundreds to hundreds of thousands is a whole other ball game. Yes it's still going to infuriate plenty of folks that the social media and news giants all pretty much collectively kept their foot on Trumps throat while extending their hands to Biden and that outrage is justified in my opinion. However, having millions of folks believe that AND believe that the actual polls were rigged and countless illegal ballots were cast as part of some conspiracy is a recipe for disaster.

    The best thing for this country to do is to provide transparency and say listen we understand that millions of Americans believe something fishy has gone on and we are investigating to either prove or disprove those claims. That's a win for both Democrats and Republicans. I listened to Joe Biden's victory speech and he called for unity and a time for healing, well you simply cannot do either of those if virtually half of the voting block of this nation thinks you flat out cheated and got away with it. Investigations provide the Biden Administration and the Democrat Party the ammo to tell the "other side" look we didn't cheat we won fair and square and the investigations into your claims otherwise have proven that. You won in 2016 and we won in 2020, that's how democracy works. It also provides closure to the RATIONAL Conservatives who are honest enough to say ok we thought something fishy was going on and it was investigated by Trumps own hand picked legal team and it turns out nothing happened. Sure they may have found a few hundred invalid ballots or something but there wasn't some massive conspiracy of millions of illegal ballots dropped off in the middle of the night or whatever.

    Now yes you are going to get those who aren't going to hear it no matter what happens. There are plenty of folks out there who believe this entire election was one huge conspiracy mess and the only thing that would make them happy is to re-do the entire election, as I said you can't appeal to everyone but you can appeal to some. The end goal is not to ensure Biden is in office or Trump is in office but rather to get at least SOME of those 71 million people to believe in the legitimacy of the election process. The reason I say that is because out of everyone I've spoken to from the hardcore Trump supporter who has a MAGA tattoo on his arm to the normal guy who just happened to vote for Trump I have yet to meet ONE person who has said *shrug* we lost it happens. There is something terribly wrong with that and if anybody honestly wishes to make a real effort to bring this country back together then you simply cannot just ignore that.

    And for those claiming it's wasted money and time chasing ghosts or whatever then I'm fine with that. Ensuring that Americans believe our election process is genuine is absolutely a justified spending of our tax dollars in my opinion. We need to stop thinking about the here and now and understand the future. Our Democratic Republic is the backbone of our nation here in America and if half of the voting block here genuinely believes that the election process is corrupted on this massive scale then this country is doomed and there is no turning around after this. Folks need to seriously stop thinking of the here and now and understand that the NATION is more important than "haha Trump/Biden lost lets point our fingers and laugh at all those people". Whoever is in the White House is temporary, they'll be gone in 4 or 8 years they matter WAY less than the Republic itself and the only way for the Republic itself to survive is to ensure the PEOPLE believe that the election process is legitimate and not some "democracy on paper" nonsense like some other nations pull.
     
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  8. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    No fear here. They lawsuits will get thrown out or trigger at best a handful of ballots to be thrown out. They will not influence the election. When news desks call an election they use math and probabilities to project that. Their models take into account that not all ballots cast will be counted due to irregularities.
     
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  9. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I triple dog dare you to compare burned buildings and lootings done by right wingers as opposed to the crazy crybaby left. Also, those shootings are isolated incidents of some twisted, sick individuals and it is not the NORM like rioting, burning and looting are among the left. Sorry but your analogy FAILS. Try harder! put some effort into it this time!
     
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  10. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats why they called it for Gore right?
     
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  11. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    You don't know the registration of any of the rioters and looters you are referring to. You don't even know most of their names. How could you know what party they are registered to without even knowing that?
     
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  12. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Apples equals oranges now? Do you want to google what happened in the 2000 election in Florida and save me the trouble?

    The lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court was to stop recounting based on the grounds that it was being done differently in different counties. As such, different results would not reflect an accurate count and any changes could be challenged again and again. It wasn't anything similar to Trump's current lawsuits which are basically trying to stop the first count of ballots he doesn't like because they are votes for Biden. You can't win a legal argument on those grounds. You can't sue for being the loser.
     
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  13. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Which is absolutely great and a huge positive for the country. People should vote, it's one of the most important things we should be doing as Americans and I believe everyone has a civic duty to do so. Seeing record numbers of American voters this go around is great but what is even more important than the fact that more people voted than ever before is to ensure that the PEOPLE themselves BELIEVE more people actually voted than ever before. The single most damaging thing to this country would be for half it to to genuinely believe that a record number of votes for cast without a record number of Americans actually voting. If we move forward with half the nation believing that then this country is over.

    Whether they should or should not believe that is irrelevant, they do. We have to show them.
     
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  14. ChiCowboy

    ChiCowboy Well-Known Member

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    These are the same people who said Obama's birth certificate was fake, both the copy and long form. No, these people are not equipped for truth. It doesn't matter what we "show" them, they will never accept it.
     
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  15. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nobody seems to want to tell me why Trump has asked Barr to go hunting for evidence to prove his fraud claims.

    Also note that in the fine print for the fundraising for the legal fees, is a note that only 40% will go to legal fees, and 60% will go to campaign debt.

    I smell a money grab.
     
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  16. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Doesn't matter. The news desks still called it wrong using the same methods they are using now so I just destroyed your argument.
     
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  17. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do you usually find evidence?

    Why you go look for it.

    Are you seriously trying to argue that all evidence should be gathered before an investigation starts?

    OMG
     
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  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    While I do agree with that premise, noting Biden will try, he is speaking as I write this. But Trump has poisoned the well since he took office. Therefore, Biden, though try as he might, he can't wait until they do come around, he has the right and legal and moral obligation in the name of justice and the constitution to take all available measures that are available to him, legal and otherwise, to move the country forward.
     
  19. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's now how justice works.

    You don't go looking for it just because YOU THINK there is evidence and you don't like the outcome of the election.

    It's called predication.

    "Predication", capiche? Predication means you need more than whim to investigate. MORE THAN WHIM. "Whim" = making **** up.

    There are irregularities, but that is not was republicans are alleging.

    All elections have irregularities. They don't prove, nor predicate, what
    republicans are alleging. What are republicans alleging?

    The are alleging 'dems stealing the election".

    For that, predication is required to investigate, and so far, 10 out of the lawsuits
    Trump has brought to courts have been thrown out for 'lack of evidence'.

    "Lack of evidence".

    Capiche?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  20. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Every case filed gives a reason for the suit, I suggest you go read them because not a single one is based on what you just said.
     
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  21. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I'm with you on that. I personally believe Trump won't accept anything other than victory no matter what happens with these investigations. I believe he will fall into the camp of "even if the investigations prove nothing it's because it's all a huge conspiracy against me and they mixed fake ballots with real ones or whatever and hid the evidence and everyone is in on it I'm still President". And he won't shut up about it either and he may end up having to be escorted out of the White House or at the very least he will leave peacefully then spend the next 4 years riling up his base and run again in 2024. Either way I highly doubt Trump is going to fade into the background and retire respectfully like President's are supposed to do, he's not going anywhere whether he remains in the White House or not. And yes he will have a huge swath of supporters likely in the tens of millions who will stick with him and his narrative whether it's factually true or not.

    Once again though, they aren't the target audience, and Trump is nowhere near the target audience I don't care what Trump believes I care what the people believe. President's are temporary, they matter very little in the grand scheme of things they'll be gone in 4 or 8 years regardless of who they are. The Republic is what matters and the Republic is the people. We need the PEOPLE, at least most of them, to genuinely believe in the integrity of the election process here if we want this fragile nation of ours to survive. Yes Trump is going to kick and scream at any outcome other than him remaining President, and yes he will have millions of people following him echoing those sentiments, but if we allow the investigations to play out and present the results then we'll have at least get SOME of those 71 million Americans who voted for Trump to say ok the election was genuine and we just lost. They'll believe in the integrity of the election and that's what matters and that's a win. If we ignore them all and just give zero credence to any of these concerns of allegations then you're going to have ALL of those 71 million Americans, both the rational AND the irrational ones, believing the election is fraudulent and that would be devastating to the nation.
     
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  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    But why are these allegations in the first place?

    Because Trump has been poisoning the well since he took office. No president in history has done this.

    Biden will try to correct this injustice, but he still needs to use every available method, legal or otherwise, to move the country forward, regardless is republicans 'come to their senses' or not.
     
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  23. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Only in your mind.

    I guess I will have to do the googling for you.

    In 2000, Florida was initially called for Gore. Than Bush. Than no one.

    The initial call for Gore came at just before 8pm eastern. It wasn't based on final vote counts given the panhandle being in the central time zone was still voting. It was based on initial and early voting tallies and exit polls. Exit polls, however, are no longer used as a result of...the 2000 election.

    So no, you are wrong again. They didn't call it wrong in 2020 based on the same methods they used in 2000. Today they use modeling and only ACTUAL vote counts. The reason they can do that is vote counting happens much quicker than it did in 2000 when in the case of Florida, they were still using paper ballots that had to be counted with slower machines or by hand only.

    In any case, your premise is false as is your comparison. All you destroyed was the appearance you knew what you were talking about.
     
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  24. Eretria

    Eretria Well-Known Member

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    I think your signature quote sums it up. One of the biggest farce in current times has been pulled off and I can't believe we have to constantly coddle people. I have 3 sons and can recognize a tantrum when I see one. The election is over and we should move forward with the process as we have for over 200+ years. Enough is enough. I'm disgusted with the attempts to dismantle our democracy.
     
  25. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Then you must know that the fix is in and all this voter fraud will be accepted by the courts.
     
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