Could all humans begin from just two people?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Nov 17, 2020.

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Could G-d in a sense learn or evolve and still be G-d???

  1. Yes

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  2. No

    12 vote(s)
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  3. That is a really unusual question.... but intriguing?!

    1 vote(s)
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  1. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    There are no intermediate organs. All of those complex structures and life forms might had micro changes but they never developed from an organ to a non organ. There might have been micro changes but never a complex structure evolving.
     
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  2. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    The Bible talks about God's love for His creation and His holiness. Pagan religions don't talk about our sinful nature or seeking God or knowing God more and more and making God a part of your life.
     
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  3. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Eve didn't have children before the fall. It wouldn't have been wrong, but Adam and Eve taking the forbidden fruit happened before she hasi kids. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. God judged Eve because even though God is love He also is just. https://carm.org/god-multiplies-pain-women-child-bearing

     
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  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    In order to discount evolution you would have to address what evolution says has been happeneing. The catch with your argument is that evolution does not claim to work as you imply.

    So, I agree with at least some of what you are saying here, because evolution says it doesn't work that way.

    Evolution claims that ALL living structures are intermediate. Saying intermediate only means that there were changes over time. Those changes are ALL micro changes. Change looks big only as they aggregate over time. If two branches of change grow significant enough that interbreeding is no longer possible, that is one clear indicator that a new species exists. At that point, differences through micro level changes will continue to lead in different directions since there isn't any genetic force to provide coordinated guidance.

    There are clear cases in humans where reductions have been made.

    => Over the last 20,000 years the human brain has shrunk by the size of a tennis ball. That change was probably an improvement in that brains the size of human brains require large amounts of energy to operate, protect, etc.

    => Many humans have the remnants of a second system of odor detection that many species of mammals still use. It exists in the septum of the nose. But, even for humans that have pieces of that system, there are key pieces that no longer exist. For example, there are no longer any nerves to carry that sense of smell to the brain.
     
  5. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Those examples have nothing to do with total macroevolution being possible. None of those examples involve the intermediate of a single celled organism and an organ.
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You didn't ask that question.
     
  7. Hey Nonny Mouse

    Hey Nonny Mouse Well-Known Member

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    Producing humanity from just two people would require lots of miracles long after those two were dead. The theory that humanity came from two people isn't a good scientific theory.
     
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  8. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Most religions suggest it happened and we are decedents of the first two.
    Those that ascribe to Evolutionary Theory would suggest it is likely the ancestors of the species we call human stretch back through billions of generations of life directly to the first life form that was able to reproduce, that first spark responsible for all life that has existed on this planet, all life in our vast extended family of trillions. It’s an amazing family tree, and to me, a wonderful thought we are all related.
     
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  9. Vailhundt

    Vailhundt Banned

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    No. We know it is false. We have known this for quite some time.
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are psychological studies that indicate that when we go through a very difficult challenge to accomplish something..... we appreciate what we have done far, far, far more than if it had been easy.

    The difficulties of childbirth do tend to cause women to love their children powerfully.
     
  11. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ If you believe in a creator then yes - humans began as such . If you believe in science as we currently understand it then we evolved just as everything else has on planet earth.

    " We humans are merely a more advanced product of the environment , just as the trees and the insects. A miracle of evolution - such as it is . "

    ~ Who said this ..?
     
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  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are two ideas here - One is that when the Gods came down and created the first humans - think the story goes that Enki implanted 7 annunaki Women at the same time - with the holy seed .. creating a being that was part God - but part from an earth creature . perhaps a chimp or is the the Apes .. who are our closest cousins...

    OK .. so that is the Oldest Creation Story - from which Genesis was later taken .. a shorter more summarized version of the same story that everyone in the near east believed for near 3000 years .. including the ancient Israelites.

    Then there is the evolution perspective - but this too - you likely had multiple "very close to living" organisms at the same time .. prior to the first bacteria .. who were here long before we were.

    So starting there - these bacteria begin to create structures - act in a consortial fashion .. engage in specialization .. out of this pops eventually a 2 celled bacteria forms..

    Eventually - after many millions of years .. they build a human - you do realize that in terms of number of cells .. you are way more bug - than you are human 9 to 1 actually .. Now .. a human cell is larger than a bacterial cell .. so volume wise - you are more human than bug...so worry not .. but do try to treat the other organisms living within you well .. as they are your defense mechanism against the bad bugs .. or a big part of it. ..a symbiotic relationship with your immune system .. without which ... you die very quickly ..

    So then -- where does this leave us in relation to the first two - in that in both paths I have given there really are no "first two" ..
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is interesting that this story has seven women....
    one near death experiencer was shown that the Seven Spirits of God are the Elohim of Genesis chapter one.....
    She was shown that the Seven Spirits of God are twins... one male and one female.... and that a spark from one of the Elohim is in every human at conception.

    The soul comes later on... often near the time of birth...
     
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A vision of some kind no doubt - Surly you have heard at least parts of this story. -- think this is the Atra Hasis Text.

    Urgaritic literature - "The Most High" had 70 sons. this is how many portions the land was divided in to as per Deut 32:8 - proper reading from a text prior to the Masoretic text - from which all modern Translation are taken .. interesting Stuff.

    It is these sons who YHWH - who is himself a Son of El - conquors in Psalm 82 -- where they are given the sentence of Death in the council of El -- This of course is wishful thinking on the part of some poet writing around the time of Solomon :) Few are actually worshiping YHWH at this point in time. Solomon is too busy building Temples to the Child Sacrifice Gods

    but I have digressed .. in the Ancient Sumerian Story -- thats how it goes .. this dates back to at least 3000 or some ridiculous date BC .. Go read the Wiki version of Sumerian History - then Bablyonian on down .. look at what was going on .. it was all about "Cities" and every city had their own main God - and likely a bunch of others .. but the main one they would bring to war .. so it was wars between the Gods of these cities .. The kings are named after there God .. see the kings named "Enlil - something or another"

    but this was their story .. the Assyrians - Babylonians - and every other nation you will read about squabbling over that turf. They should make a movie out of this ..
     
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  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes.... fascinating stuff indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  16. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    If God can manipulate DNA, then he can fix all the problems from all the brother-sister incest.
     
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  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I forgot whether or not I told my "vacation" story - That in heaven one can take a vacation - go to one of millions of worlds - all available on the reality TV network.. the one rule being - that you will not remember your past life - until you die and go back to heaven. Sans perhaps a vision or two.. a fleeting memory..
     
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  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes - but if the creator intervened in this experiment - to alter the outcome - it would not be much of an experiment now would it ?
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct!!!!!

    I do believe that The Intelligence who in a sense "Evolved" and "learned" over infinite time in the past can fix........... all of our DNA problems...... and create heaven on earth by the year 2185....... but....... kind of like Count Dracula, (except different).... G-d is polite and needs to be invited into our homes in order to fix our homes and even our bodies!


    https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04



    That is a good point but.........




    https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04



     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  20. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    That's not how Evolution works and the lies put forth by x-tians have been debunked and refuted.

    Species can and do interbreed and their progeny can procreate.

    Also, contrary to the nonsense spewed by the Vatican, there is nothing wrong with 1st Cousins intermarrying. In fact, it was normal for 1st and 2nd Cousins to intermarry.

    Up until a few decades ago, 90% of the population lived and died within 5 miles of the couch, bed or patch of straw and dirt they were born on.

    I mention that because of the silly claims people make that everyone is a descendant of Charlemagne or King-what's-his-name or whatever.

    No. Wrong answer.

    That's mathematical acrobatics based on the fallacious assumption that people always married outside of their families when the reality is that rarely happened until just a few centuries ago when industrialization started and technology created surplus agricultural labor, which allowed at least a small segment of the population to move from rural areas to urban areas in search of work.

    Just out of curiosity, how does it feel?

    Seriously.

    You're Gomer and your god has some special pain and suffering planned just for you solely because you are Gomer.

    I was just wondering how you feel knowing that you're going to suffer and endure incredible everlasting pain for eternity and there ain't a damn thing you can do about it.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Let's remember that a sound biological principle is that if an advanced life form decreases in population to below 2,000 that are in grave danger of extinction. In fact, that is by far the likely outcome.

    What we're seeing here is the USE of the "god concept" to invalidate ALL possible argument against ANY idea, regardless of how ludicrous.

    It's not even SLIGHTLY bettter than suggesting there is no gravity - that "god" simply moves stuff in a manner that lets us THINK there is something we call gravity.

    It's no better than suggesting that the universe is young, and the photons we catch from stars were fabricated in flight in such a way that it LOOKS like they came from substantial distance.

    It's the logic that says FIRST come up with some idea of how something works - regardless of how STUPID it might be.

    THEN argue that an everlasting and all powerful god COULD make it happen that way.

    It's the argument that what we see is TOTALLY irrelevant, because some super powerful invisible magician could be faking it ALL.

    How freeing!!! It means that however ludicrously crazy our dremas my be they are just as valid as what we see.
     
  22. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Humanity did not and could not develop from just two oeople.
     
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  23. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    If the topic headline is referring to Biblical 'Adam and Eve'. they were God's special creation that occurred long after the rest of God's creation that included other humanoids.
     
  24. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how evangelicals would feel if science did prove that we are indeed descendent from just two people. But it was, two women. Like, Eve and Eve ;).
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021

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