Sweden’s herd immunity “success story”

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by nopartisanbull, Nov 25, 2020.

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  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    The pro-herd strategists haven’t gave us an update on “Sweden’s success story” in quotation.

    Still a model for the rest of the world?

    Headline; Sweden has admitted its Coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country

    Source; Business Insider, Nov 13th, 2020
     
  2. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's business as usual here. There's talk about limiting the number of people in any one place (even further) but the restaurants and buses haven't changed one bit. Still every-other table vacant and the "recommended" distance on the bus. No face masks and if you see one in 50 people wearing one that's about it. What Sweden might have said internationally about admitting this or that looks to be mere lip service.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  3. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So the top infectious disease expert and is in charge of Sweden's epidemiologist.

    He shows NO SIGN OF IMMUNITY that is slowing down infection!

    Another Republican/Trump FAIL!

    https://thehill.com/policy/internat...no-signs-of-herd-immunity-curbing-coronavirus
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  4. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Immunity isn't about Republicans/Trump, but a natural thought process on how viruses proceed. That the virus is not proceeding this way, gives more credence to this being a bioweapon. Of course, people have denied it, etc and I'm not a scientist but China protected the international community in 2003, it didn't in 2020.

    Also, in the "phase one" of the trade deal, China *innocently* writes in it a waiver in the case of a "natural emergency"(that would appear months later.). I literally want to Nuremburg the top Chinese Officials, and get all secret documents.
     
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  5. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh great. So the Swedes continue to deny how serious this virus is.
    You know, the virus has a way of punishing this kind of behavior. You've done very poorly already as compared to your neighbors, and it will only get worse.
    Not that we can teach you anything because we did even worse here, with our idiotic president.

    But no, this *is* what your Chief Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell is saying. Here:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/swe...onavirus-cases-hospitalisations-surge-2020-11

    "Sweden's chief epidemiologist has acknowledged the country is experiencing a second surge in coronavirus cases despite previously predicting that the number of infections in the autumn would be "quite low" because of the country's no-lockdown policy."

    And read this:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/swe...ita-death-rate-among-highest-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

    So if you Swedes want to stick your heads in the sand and deny this reality, oh well, suit yourself. Whatever comforts you... but then don't complain if you catch the virus.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  6. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What does Trump have to do with Sweden's approach to the virus? This is not New Sweden, Idaho. We have our own country and our own Prime Minister ... or didn't you know that?
     
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  7. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one knows yet "how serious this virus is."

    Not really true. Denmark (our "neighbour") has introduced hard-line restriction including limits of gatherings and hard rules on face masks but they are doing no better than Sweden with no face mask rules at all.

    I don't see what Trump has to do with it.

    I can post a very intelligent and eye-opening link to the contrary that will blow your mind but I don't think you can read Swedish.

    Are you (as an elite expert with superior, inside information) speaking to me personally?
     
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  8. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where do all these people who claim this "herd immunity" works or works that well?

    Any modern herd manager uses enormous effort to try to sustain their sometimes heavy deaths and disabled and damaged members, which a fate the apparently usually poorly understood proponents of "herd immunity"!

    But NOW, the failure of "herd immunity" is the fault of the fact that COVID must be a "Chinese Bioweapon". Too bad our President ignored all advice and first claims that these virus has is a hoax (without evidence), even as ALL of our multi-billions of 11 intelligence angencies say it is a serious infection danger as they watch China gets brought to its knees. Although the same Trump buddies much later claim is a biological biological weapon from China, with also with no evidence.

    Wow!

    China is "all-powerful" where no reputable scientists has the rest of the world has evidence, but China plays it like a violin!

    Oh, yeah. Why not get the McDonald's Secret Big Mac Sauce while judges are at it?
     
  9. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do. I treat patients who have it, every day of the week. And I'm very well informed regarding the latest virology research regarding the SARS-CoV-2 and the pathophysiology of the lesions it causes in the human body, both in the pulmonary phase and the cytokine storm phase; and for survivors, the longer-term consequences for the heart (chronic inflammatory myocarditis), the brain (cognitive impairment, strokes), the kidneys (renal insufficiency), the lungs (fibrosis), and the coagulation system (DVT in limbs, pulmonary embolism, strokes). Speak for yourself with your "no one knows" but don't speak for me.
    What *you* are saying is what is not true. Sweden's Covid-19 deaths per million of population: 647. Denmark's, 138. You were saying? Do you seriously think that having a death toll 4.7 times smaller than yours, is equal to "doing no better"? You seem to place a small value on human life. And let's look at a couple of other countries in the region: Finland's, 70. Norway's, 58. So Finland has a death toll 9.2 times smaller than yours. Norway, 11.5 times smaller. So, it turns out that you have no clue and you don't know what you are saying. Talk about denial! And this time I *am* talking to YOU.
    I do. A lot. It would be too long to explain the various ways he mismanaged it, down to details that someone like, working inside the healthcare industry, knows. I don't feel like explaining it again as I've posted it multiple times already. And I was, of course, talking of OUR mismanagement, saying that we can't teach you. Obviously I wasn't implying anything about Trump having to do with YOUR situation, if that's what you're getting at. [Unbelievable!]
    I speak fluently and read five languages but one of them is not Swedish, indeed. I doubt it, though, that you can teach me anything "eye opening."
    You can call me an elite expert with superior, inside information, indeed. Look up my State of the Vaccines thread pinned to the top of the Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions (not news, discussions) subforum for a sample. I'm a professional in the area with two doctorates and 40 years of experience. But no, I wasn't talking just to you. I used "you" as in, "you Swedes." And that's precisely what I said, "you Swedes" (a phrasing you've just quoted) so I can't even start to understand how on Earth you could have construed this as addressing you personally. Just this inability to understand what was spelled out in all letters makes me less likely to think that you can teach me anything, although I give you a discount for not being a native English speaker. In any case, sorry. You have lost my interest. Have a nice life. Over and out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  10. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh come on, no conspiracy theory, please. The virus' genome sequencing shows NO man-made manipulation whatsoever. This is a natural virus. This excludes 100% any possibility of the virus having been tampered with. And what exactly do you think is the unnatural way this virus is proceeding? It's a highly infectious virus, with a high R naught number. The way the theoretical herd immunity threshold is calculated for a population (given susceptibility and heterogeneity) is such that the higher the R naught, the higher the HIT. So, it's perfectly natural that this virus is not easy to provide functional herd immunity by natural infection only (which is why we need the vaccines) and there is nothing in its behavior that indicates that it is a bioweapon. And what do you mean by thought process? Viruses don't think.

    By the way, the Admin of this forum has established the rule that posts about this virus being man-made and ideas of purposeful infection, belong to the Conspiracy Theories subforum, not here. The Admin specifically said, don't post this kind of thing here. So if that's what you think, feel free to go post there, but please abide by the Admin's rules and refrain from posting this garbage here.

    Now, think of it. How boneheaded would it be, to create a bioweapon that only kills 0.65% of the people infected (when they study far more dangerous viruses in the Wuhan Virology Lab), and then, to top it all, release it in their own freaking country first? Wouldn't they think that this might backfire? Don't you think that if they wanted to spread a disease around, they'd silently take some viral cultures to, say, a place like Nigeria, and release it there so that nobody would be blaming China? And why would they be frantically looking for a vaccine, and only almost one year later succeed in getting an experimental one to give to their military and other essential personnel? Don't you think that if they had planned this as an attack, they'd have continued to quietly pursue a vaccine BEFORE the release, so that they'd protect themselves first? And what about the frantic 3 weeks they spent trying to gobble up all the PPE? Wouldn't they have stockpiled much sooner if they were preparing for a bioweapon attack? Just by thinking deeper about it, you can see how ABSURD this bioweapon conspiracy theory is (like all conspiracy theories - next someone will say that this virus was created by George Soros through the 5G network; tinfoil hats are recommended).

    So, you think that the "natural emergency" clause of the trade deal is proof that they were preparing for a bioweapon attack??? In all kinds of contracts, there are natural emergency waivers. Over here, we call them "acts of God." Look up contracts that include the phrasing; you'll find many. So anytime *WE* write up a contract that includes waivers for "acts of God" we are preparing to unleash some sort of bioweapon unto the world??? This natural emergency clause could be anything from tsunamis to typhoons to yes, pandemic outbreaks, given that this is not the first one that they have faced. The first SARS originated in China too. They know that their culture, given close interaction with some wild animals and density of population, is susceptible to animal viruses that jump species.
     
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  11. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Chinese were not alone in this Plandemic. The men of Davos had a major role.

    This was a bioweapon, engineered for gain of function way back in 2015. The first patent ever granted for a coronavirus by the US Patent Office was in 1999.
     
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  13. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Remember this?

    Trump; “The UK is up 2,500%, the EU is up 722%, and the U.S. is down 21%”......Oct 12th, 2020


    Comparative figures;

    UK’s Cases per day

    Aug 1st; 743
    Oct 12th; 17,234
    Nov 23rd; 15,540.....since Aug 1st, up approx. 2,000%


    U.S. Cases per day

    Aug 1st; 60,048
    Oct 12th; 51,944
    Nov 23; 174,906.....since Aug 1st, up approx. 190%


    Sweden Cases per day

    Aug 1st; 38
    Oct 12th; 916
    Nov 23; 4,578.....since Aug 1st, up approx. 12,000%

    Source; U.S./UK/Sweden’s Cases per day, Wikipedia


    Thus, according to Trump’s “We’re doing better than they are” RATIONALE, is Sweden’s 12,000% increase in daily cases....a WOW factor?
     
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  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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  15. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't look at "cases". At the end of September, the U.S. had "ramped up" to approx. 800,000 tests per day. Trump announced a doubling of tests being distributed. Less than two months later, we are now running 1.8 Million tests per day. We've doubled testing in just under two months. Of course the number of cases is spiking.

    The positivity rate has spiked because we are catching a lot more asymptomatic individuals.
     
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  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    And because the tests are fundamentally flawed as they are being used.
     
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  17. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am 73 years old and I have a pacemaker due to problems with blood pressure, plus I live in Malmö. That puts me in the "high risk" zone. Since you are so smart let me know when I am about to die and I'll let you know what it feels like.
     
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  18. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting Trump’s relevant info, however, here are the most relevant info;

    In just under two months.....

    Number of Hospitalizations;

    Sep 30th; 36,555
    Nov 26; 89,544.....more than doubled


    Daily deaths, 7-day average

    Sep 30th; 716
    Nov 25; 1,708.....more than doubled

    Source; U.S. historical data/Covid tracking project
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  19. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are going into cold/flu season. A second wave of Covid accompanying the cooler weather should come as no surprise. With the last of the Greatest Generation around 100 years old, the Silent Generation is 80-95, and the oldest of the Baby Boomers are approaching 80 years, we have a large demographic of frail citizens who are susceptible to illnesses and death (from any cause). That is pretty much true for all wealthy Western societies.

    So we had that post-war baby boom, and our wealth creation changed our diet to convenient processed foods which cause heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. Our overall mortality numbers are likely to continue to increase annually for another decade or two, even after we have treatments and vaccines for Covid over the next year. We are paying a price for being "fat and happy...but aging and unhealthy".
     
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  20. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, it's as simple as that but Joe Blow and the sensationalists are hooked on the new "reality show" and they don't want to miss a single episode of manipulated detail and drama.
     
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  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, there is a lot of misinformation about Sweden in this thread. I’m going to debunk a bit of it but am missing a little data. I have a CNN site I use to get local information on daily new cases etc. in the US. Is there anything like that for Sweden?
    https://www.cnn.com/resources/coronavirus-information
    I’ve looked but can’t find anything comparable for Sweden.

    Specifically I’m looking for current new case counts or infection rates for the Tensta area of Stockholm. Thanks in advance.
     
  22. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm actually really surprised Sweden didn't go all out with this, being that the nation is considered a hyper-progressive place with a reputation for implementing controlling "nanny-state" tactics.

    It is true of course that, due to the culture, Swedes typically keep a lot of distance between each other, so that should have helped. And the cities tend not to have such large crowds due to the smaller city sizes.

    Can I ask you, why do you think Sweden did not go all out and crazy about trying to stop this like many other (developed Western) countries did?
    (progressive parts of US, Canada, UK)
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  23. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree that there is a lot of misinformation about Sweden and I am looking forward to seeing your debunking of it. I don’t know what sort of source you are seeking exactly. This is a link to the Swedish Health Agency >

    https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smittskydd-beredskap/utbrott/aktuella-utbrott/covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR3dCqst8rXpMVFdpn6tgYDRYa5BXt7MjGPvwKYsdhmCWyoG5MXRHoZaB5Q

    … but I don’t know if it’s what you are looking for. Perhaps this page is more what you are after >

    https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se...vid-19-veckorapporter/senaste-covidrapporten/

    … or maybe even this page >

    https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/sok/?q=Tensta

    I hope it helps.
    Good luck! :reading:
     
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  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I think it’s probably all there but I’m not sure all of it’s available in English. I’ll have more time to look this evening.
     
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  25. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well this study finds that lockdowns are not linked to decreased Covid deaths. It higher deaths to wealthy countries in certain latutudes/longitudes where the average lifespan has been lengthening for decades, but started to reverse. The effect of wealth has led to less exercise and diets which cause a lot of heart disease, diabetes, and other comorbidities.

    "Conclusion: Countries that already experienced a stagnation or regression of life expectancy, with high income and NCD rates, had the highest price to pay. This burden was not alleviated by more stringent public decisions. Inherent factors have predetermined the Covid-19 mortality: understanding them may improve prevention strategies by increasing population resilience through better physical fitness and immunity."

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full#SM6
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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