Mexican Guns

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by edna kawabata, Feb 21, 2021.

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  1. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    And East St Louis, Illinois, has a higher homicide rate than Gary, Indiana.
     
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  2. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    The NRA loves Missouri.
     
  3. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    AHAHHAHAHHAA so you're just picking any high crime area to compare to chicago? how about the rest of the country where lesser gun laws equated to lesser murder rates? if your assertion that ease of getting a guns made the state less safe you could not be more wrong. the evidence shows less violent crime, if you care about statistics that is.
     
  4. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    What do Gary, Indiana; East St Louis, IL; Chicago, IL; and St Louis, MO all have in common besides high crime? It isn't the same state laws on gun control, is it?
     
  5. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Which law are you disagreeing with? Closing the private sale loophole or the one-gun-a-month law? Why wouldn't it affect criminals?
     
  6. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Both are to blame. Guns make already existing problems worse- like pouring gasoline on an already existing fire.
     
  7. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Ask the DOJ.


    In the 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies" the DOJ noted that “universal” background checks can’t be effective without a reduction in the illegal sources of guns to criminals and can’t be enforced without comprehensive firearm registration.
    In "Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016", the DOJ reported in Table 5 where criminals get their guns. We see that vast majority of guns in the hands of criminals come from straw purchases, family transfers, theft and the underground market (Illegal sources of firearms that include markets for stolen goods, middlemen for stolen goods, criminals or criminal enterprises, or individuals or groups involved in sales of illegal drug). A total of 0.8% come from gun shows. Purchases from "good guys" in private sales don't even show up.
    What does a UBC do to prevent criminals from getting guns?
    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf
     
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  8. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Some great ideas about how to solve the problem:

    "I’ve spent the last four years tracking this so-called iron river of guns, in an effort to understand why the United States and Mexico have so badly failed to stop it....

    "Traffickers acquire guns through the private-sale loophole, in which people who say they are collectors can sell weapons to others without running background checks on the buyers or asking for identification.

    "President Biden should put his weight behind universal background checks to eliminate this loophole, a move the vast majority of Americans support. A 2019 NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll found that 89 percent of those surveyed, including 81 percent of conservatives, said they supported background checks for all gun purchases at gun shows or other private sales.

    "Another way for gangsters to get guns is by paying a 'straw buyer,' or someone with a clean record, to buy a firearm. If caught, buyers convicted of lying on the form are often merely sentenced to probation. Traffickers, in turn, pay a pittance of $50 to $100 per weapon.

    “ 'They’re not going to get any jail time. What’s the deterrent factor?' says Steve Barborini, a former agent of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. If the sentencing guidelines were increased and straw buyers faced prison, they may think twice.

    "The last two methods used by traffickers are buying stolen firearms, which are often robbed from gun shops, and buying kits on the internet, known as ghost guns. There are already bills that have been proposed to the U.S. House of Representatives that would crack down on both of these."
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/opinion/international-world/guns-mexico.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
  9. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    I don't think forks make people fat. The only time they're a problem is when criminals use them.
     
  10. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    The entire northwest area of Indiana known as the "region" has a high poverty rate and therefore a high crime rate and it abuts Chicago and Chicagoans get a lot of their guns from there.
    I am still waiting for your statistics showing ease of access to guns means less violent crime.
     
  11. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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  12. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    AH, so this isn't about legally owned weapons you just want legal citizens not to be able to defend themselves from the criminal element. Neat.

    Here goes the actual stats;
    https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013/

    https://americangunfacts.com/
    3/5
    POLLED FELONS SAY THEY WON’T MESS WITH AN ARMED VICTIM
    200,000
    TIMES A YEAR WOMEN USE A GUN TO DEFEND AGAINST SEXUAL ABUSE

    Nations with strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates than those who do not in general. In fact, the 9 European nations with the lowest gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the highest gun ownership rate!

    Why would you want women to suffer from MORE sexual abuse because they cannot defend themselves?
     
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  13. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the shaky sources. I see why you live in a right-wing bubble. Gun ownership per household has gone down. Those buying guns already own guns.
    https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/254669.pdf
    https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14906
     
  14. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Right after you demonstrate how your claim that more guns = more gun related crime is true, given the increase in the number of guns and the decrease of gun-related crime, in the US, 1993-present, is true.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  15. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  16. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    They aren't waltzing into your local US gun store and buying full auto weapons.
    https://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2...g-cartels-at-us-mexico-border-not-iraq-texas/
     
  17. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    mexico shouldn't be asking us for a damned thing. They're bringing this entire continent down with their state sponsored crime and rush to export problem people.
     
  18. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Not in 2020.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/newsch...irst-time-gun-buyers-grow-to-nearly-5-million

    And....

     
  19. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    A one year "trend"?

    Anyway.....I can buy a table at the local gun & knife show down at the armory for $100 and sell my personal gun "collection" to any yahoo with cash without a background check. 50% of firearms purchased privately were without a background check.
    There are two bills pending. One requires background checks for private sales and the other extends the time a gun buyer must wait for the background check to be completed before receiving the gun.
     
  20. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Ahh... freedom.
    Ahh... freedom.
    Restrictions that cannot be demonstrated necessary or effective.
     
  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    There are already laws prohibiting selling firearms without an FFL. They are not enforced. And you are not considering the fact what you describe is prohibited in some states and by the venues themselves in others.

    Also, formal research shows universal background checks do not decrease misuse of firearms where they are implemented. Don’t be a science denier!
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1047279718306161

     
  22. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    One state out of 22 with an extended background check beyond federal law and "incomplete and missing records for background checks, incomplete compliance and enforcement, and narrowly constructed prohibitions may be among the reasons for these null findings" in the study. All that seems to mean is that the "science" is not in.
     
  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes California is mostly incompetent, that is true. But the study is valid and the best we have. Let’s see your data to back your position.
     
  24. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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  25. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Indeed the "science" is not settled and it won't be until there is a national UBC. It's like saying you can piss in that end of the pool and thinking that solves the problem.
     

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