Post modernism, the woke left's philosophical basis for suppressing free speech

The point of this thread, if you haven't heard of, or studied much, the subject of modernism versus post modernism, you should, because it gives clarity on what the underlying currents are driving the two essential (modern) polarities of politics.

Let me first state that I'm a liberal, and I make a huge distinction between that and being a 'woke' liberal. The difference between the two are, on a philosophical and cultural level the difference between modernism and post-modernism, and it's significant. To understand this subject and it's implications, one will begin to lift the cloud which occludes one's ability to understand where the hard left evolved their thinking. In my view, both the extreme left, and the extreme right, though paying lip service to equality and free speech, actually, as a practical matter, support tyranny, just in different ways. But, this OP is about the 'woke' left, the hard left. I've discussed my views on the right many times on this forum, elsewhere.

This is a good summation of Post Modernism (see video below), or rather, a critical look at it, and I agree with it.

What I do not agree with is how some right of center folks, such as Jordan Peterson, associate PM with 'the left', without qualifying and thus making the critical distinction between the 'the left' and the 'extreme "woke" left' and thus a new agenda has arisen where the right is using anti post modern rhetoric to bash liberalism in order to win new right wing converts.

That is where I dissent. If anyone wants to learn out to shake the insanity of post modernism from their soul, without becoming a bat **** crazy extreme right republican, listen, watch and take heed to the "New Rules" segments by Bill Maher's "Real Time With Bill Maher" show , which always lead up to a big point at the end, and it is the big point to which

I'm mainly referring. Not just one or two of them, listen and watch a good serving of them, on the whole, and you'll learn how to be a non-post modernist liberal without becoming a right winger who winds up voting for someone like Donald Trump, who is the antithesis of modernism, liberalism AND conservatism, as well.

Please note that on the subject of PM, I agree with Jordan Peterson, who beautifully exposes it as an 50 something year old ideology that's giving rise to a new quasi intellectualism that basically is a anything goes 'rethinking everything' approach to everything, whereby there are no clear cut 'correct' paths of looking at anything, that nothing is better than anything else and everything is subjective. If you disagree with a PMer, you'll get a reply that asserts that your modernist thinking is wrong because it is modernist thinking, which is to say, not based on empirical reality, and you cannot be right because you disagree with them. In short, it's a new form of intellectual tyranny. A perfect example of this is where Twitter banned Jordan Peterson because he disagreed with a particular trans activist point of view

Nowhere is post modernism more prevalent in it's insanity is on the subject of transgenderism and gender fluidity. This is NOT to say there is not such a thing as transgenderism, or gender fluidity or gender dysphoria. The issue is what is driving wokism and how that affects new laws. Moreover, new laws are being created in Canada, and, NYC for example, where it is illegal to not refer to anyone's chosen 'pronoun' whereupon you can be prosecuted for committing a hate crime. This is pure insanity codified in law (Bill C 16 in Canada, in NYC I have to look it up, I could be wrong) Post modernism's intellectual tyranny now says it's illegal to be 'offensive'! The whole school of thinking where androgynous males/females are 'born in the wrong body' and by virtue of this, can now, even legally, refer to themselves as the opposite of their biological sex, is evolved from post modernistic thinking. Peterson covers this in very robust, in depth, detail.

Thus. while paying lip service to 'equality' and 'free speech' it actually sees one particular race as the problem ( the white race) sees people through the lens of oppressors versus the oppressed, and favors censorship, etc.

Moreover, a typical post modernist argument is to bash all parties as corrupt, all politicians as corrupt, and if you even argue for any of it, you are therefore corrupt and they (the PMers) will refuse to even communicate with you. This is intellectual tyranny and we must, as a nation, recognize it and alert the less suspecting, the impressionable, the naive and gullible, of it's dangers as a cynical school of thought that it is not a good thing.

I mean, I'm just getting started and I recommend everyone to watch this video, and no, you are not required to become a republican to reject post modernism, those who are offering that ruse have an agenda that's just as bad as the post modernist agenda, as well. In my view, I always ask, 'where does the pendulum rest'? Answer, the center.

Post Modernism critique which explains, in depth, what it is, and why you shouldn't believe in it.


Jordan Peterson's criticizing the hard left's and post modernist advocates refusal to communicate with criticism on the subject


In her book, "Totalitarianism (part 3)" by Hannah Arendt, she states:
...The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the
convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between
fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between
true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.

 

The entire left wing political theory is based on postmodernism. The education theory, environmentalism is all post modernistic.
You contradict yourself.

 

ridiculous

i guess i sort of understamd where the "woke" crowd is coming from, but if you think we spend our days worrying about pronouns and blaming "wipepo; for all our problems you've been stuck in some kind of echo chamber.

 

No, it doesn't, because I don't, nor does the liberalism of Bill Maher, those of us in that camp.

My very presence here is proof of that. Most post modernists wouldn't even be on this forum debating the subject and there a lot of liberals on various debate forums, including this one. .

 

Apoligists for liberalism are just part of the propaganda machine used to cover for the rise of totalitarian comminism.

 

No see because if a post modernist runs against a conservative, you will support the post modernist.

Which makes you no better than them and Complicit in their destruction of our country.

 

we can't get a new deal liberal (sanders) nominated; i'm not too concerned that i will have t choose a "post modernist"(perhaps "the squad?" though aoc will engage with anyone_) over a "conservative." if you are listening to the news it is trumpism that is destroying the country, not "post modernism" or the shattered remnants of "conservatism."

 

What news are you listening to? Trump hasn't been in power for a while and I question if Trumpism was ever in power. Listening to the news will simply give you the results of the current administration.

 

Your presence only proves your misunderstanding of post modernism. Post modernists are subjectivists and egalitarians. For example if believe in federal money (taxes) being robbed from W-2 working people to give to others you are a postmodernist.
If you believe in affirmative action, animal rights, environmental rights or any government equity laws like food stamps or minimum wage then you are a postmodernist.
Postmodernist theory economics is heavy on government intervention. Bill Maher and lots of liberals may not be on the extreme side of it, but they are most all egalitarian.

 

I'm glad to see real Liberalism reasserting itself within the Left, and with it their time tested true commitment to Freedom and Liberty. It's time!

 

Wait, you think the left is the one suppressing free speech?

 

That’s not true. Biden is not a woke liberal, he is not an AOC and that’s for dang sure. That said he still is pushing transgenderism on kids, put people in power that referenced parents as terrorists for opposing transgenderism in schools. He also tried and was stopped by the courts for being discriminatory against whites. The woke left is the left. The left you speak of is gone.

 

You have made an unsupported allegation.
Please substantiate your allegation, otherwise your comment is dismissed.

But just so you know, you allegation is false, I would dissent against wokism and suppression of free speech, wherever it occurs, and I have numerous posts where I have critized the hard left.

 

There is reportage that Trump is about to officially declare his candidacy for 2024, so Trump is very much fair game.

 

This is post modernism. The complete rejection of reality in favor of a subjective one.

 

Relies too heavily on identity-driven messaging to the point that increasing numbers of people have attached themselves so strongly to one which sees enemies everywhere, that at this point, postmodernists, woke leftists and the tv-babies of Twitter deserve what happens to them.

 

I believe I asserted that my beef with Post Modernists are where they refuse to debate, assume their detractors are automatically wrong and will cancel him, especially on college campuses, and especially on there views on gender. I don't have issues where we agree. This idea that the moderate left and extreme left do not have anything in common is nonsense, and that, because they have commonality, they are therefore one and the same is also nonsense.

We have views in common, with the hard left, but my criticism goes only to where they are wrong.

Many of those issues are upheld by PMers are moderates, etc. Hell, Nixon started the CIA, more republicans voted for the CRA than dems did, so this idea that modernism does not have anything in common with post modernism is false. It's on the fringe where my issues lie.

Of course I believe in egalitarianism. Republicans are against government whether it's good or bad, and they assume all of it's bad and ony the private sector is good, which is called neoliberalism, and the traditional conservatism that used to exists no longer exists.

The one particular complaint that I have with Post Modernism is the notion that because there are an infinite number of ways to interpret reality, there is no objective reality or among the many subjective interpretations, there are none that are better than others. This, I reject wholeheartedly.

Your view appears to be this kind of black and white, all or nothing, binary interpretation, there are no shades of grey, which is a subjective view which is among the many weaker if not false interpretations of reality. But, of course, it is my opinion that many on the right will claim this view because it forwards the right wing agenda, and they will cling to any view, however false, that does.

 

I haven't seen any of these posts you speak of. You are offering zero proof of your claim.

 

Of course, because he is trying to divert attention from the 1/6 Committee hearings. This way, he can deem any indictments as political.

 

I wasn't arguing if he was fair game or not, I was responding to this statement by @Rampart , "if you are listening to the news it is trumpism that is destroying the country, not "post modernism" or the shattered remnants of "conservatism."

There is no Trumpism in power to be making news.

 

What works is the correct balance of traditional liberalism and conservatism, but only in the context of free association and speech. Once you begin to control speech or people's movements, the whole thing goes out the window.

The left destroys everything it touches. This is the GREAT lesson of the 20th century. The left's ideas need a complete airing out so people can see for themselves just how moronic they are. These are people who play on others' emotions and ignorance.

The left has only one mission...to take what is not theirs [because they can never win a contest of ideas]. These are the losers, those unwilling to work hard enough to make a positive contribution to society. Although great at destroying, they have nothing to add. Stand up to these folks and they reveal themselves as the true self-hating cowards who believe that hurting others is the path to paradise...

 

Nonesense, here is a clip of Noam Chomsky, whose hard left credentials (advocates syndicalism ) within Academia cannot be denied, smacking down the whole postmodernism movement as 'nobody can understand a word they are saying'.



Perhaps you should change your avatar to 'Captain Oblivious'.

Just sayin'.

 

I specifically made a point of not saying that and making a distinction between the hard left influenced by postmodernism and the left to moderate left more influenced by modernism. In short I did not say that please reread the op thank you

 

“Like Saturn, the Revolution devours its children.”

― Jacques Mallet du Pan

 

Yup.