China holdings of U.S. debt fall below $1 trillion for the first time since 2010

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Pro_Line_FL, Jul 19, 2022.

  1. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,247
    Likes Received:
    14,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This is good news, since China cannot use the debt against us. Also, the China debt used to represent nearly 15% of total debt but now its down to 3% of the total. The percentage difference of course it due to the increase in US total debt, which has been going up, especially in 2020.

    China holdings of U.S. debt fall below $1 trillion for the first time since 2010
    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/18/chi...1-trillion-for-the-first-time-since-2010.html
    • China’s portfolio of government debt in May dropped to $980.8 billion, according to Treasury Department data released Monday.
    • It marked the first time since May 2010 that China’s holdings fell below the $1 trillion mark.
    It also marked the first time since May 2010 that China’s holdings fell below the $1 trillion mark. Japan is now the leading holder of U.S. debt with $1.2 trillion.

    The debt decline comes as the U.S. Federal Reserve has been raising rates to stop inflation running at its fastest rate since 1981. When rates rise on bonds, prices drop, meaning a capital loss for investors who sell the bonds ahead of maturity.

    The decline in China’s share also has been attributed to Beijing working to diversify its foreign debt portfolio.
     
    Hey Now likes this.
  2. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    42,210
    Likes Received:
    33,142
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    China has seen the worlds financial response to Russia and doesn’t want to make it easy when they do something similar. We will likely see similar divestments with investments in areas that will not be easily sanctioned.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
    Hey Now and Lil Mike like this.
  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    23,053
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They are trying to make themselves sanction proof for when they attack Taiwan.
     
    Hey Now and cd8ed like this.
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,817
    Likes Received:
    27,342
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It would be a hell of situation with so damned many products being exported to the west. Both sides would suffer immensely from any meaningful sanctions.
     
  5. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,247
    Likes Received:
    14,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think reducing holdings in US debt will help in that regard, but if they are planning to attack Taiwan, when they probably have a plan for the inevitable sanctions. Can the rest of the world do without Chinese imports? Probably, but there would be pain. At the same time it would be quick and easy way to make China less relevant, and I doubt China wants that.

    Yes, and I doubt China thinks Taiwan is worth the economic sacrifice.

    See above
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    23,053
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's why I don't see it any time soon, but I'm sure they are preparing their economy for it. China would be much harder to sanction than Russia. The world is far more dependent on China and at a certain point, the "world" won't feel they would be able to sanction them.
     
  7. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    23,053
    Trophy Points:
    113

    You are assuming that the the world, and by world I mean primarily Europe and the Anglosphere, would react the same way to an invasion of Taiwan that they did to Ukraine. I'm not sure that's the case.
     
  8. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,247
    Likes Received:
    14,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Don't know about Europe, because Ukraine is in their back yard, and therefore closer to their hearts. US, in the other hand, has a military co-operation agreement with Taiwan, Israel, Australia, South Korea, Japan and Finland (added this year). That agreement is not as binding as NATO, but is till put pressure on US to do something about an invasion, and economic sanctions are always the 1st option. I think Europe will impose sanctions on China, but maybe not to the same extent as the US. IMO China does not consider Taiwan worth the damage.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    23,053
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For us to do something about a Taiwan invasion assumes that we have the capability to do something. That seems very speculative.
     
  10. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    18,090
    Likes Received:
    14,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can't disagree but I suspect that, currently, time is still in favor of preventing this from happening.
     
  11. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,247
    Likes Received:
    14,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Of course we have the capability to impose sanctions on China and provide assistance to Taiwan, like we do with Ukraine.
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Isn't having a prosperous capitalist economy right inside China something of a cash cow for them, like Hong Kong?
     
  13. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,247
    Likes Received:
    14,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    China is doing very well compared to only few decades ago, and I doubt they are ready to kill the goose laying the golden eggs (their ability to manufacture goods and export to the rest of the world).
     
    Durandal and Aleksander Ulyanov like this.
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    OTOH most people thought WWI would never happen because it would hurt everyone's economy too much.
     
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    23,053
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Heh, not surprising but I'm taking the opposite bet.
     
  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    23,053
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's a strategy only if the Chinese were to get bogged down, fail to establish a beachhead, and things drag on for months.
     
  17. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    18,090
    Likes Received:
    14,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then I honestly hope you are wrong!!! :D
     
  18. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,247
    Likes Received:
    14,296
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Economic sanctions and military aid would still be effective. Of course it would drag on for months, especially when the Chinese would have to stage an amphibious assault against a large island with population of 23 million
     
  19. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2022
    Messages:
    1,077
    Likes Received:
    612
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "The decline in China’s share also has been attributed to Beijing working to diversify its foreign debt portfolio."
    Which is a polite way of saying it's dumping US bonds and dollars.
     
  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,782
    Likes Received:
    23,053
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually me too.
     
    Hey Now likes this.
  21. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,801
    Likes Received:
    3,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Liquidating more like it. Reportedly China's economy barely posted any growth last quarter--around a half a percent. My gut instinct is they are using the cash to buy goods to export to Russia to bypass sanctions and then selling those goods at a marked up prices for rubles to use to buy Russian oil and gas on the sly.
     
  22. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,664
    Likes Received:
    5,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wow great news! Now we just have to worry about the rising interest rate on the $30T+ national debt, but hey it's all good in a nutshell!
     
  23. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,210
    Likes Received:
    641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    china likely wont invade taiwan (unless taiwan announce independence). what china might do, is use its soft power, economy/politic/ and other influence to steer taiwan. currently about 50% of taiwan export is to china+HK, this is when their relationship is cold right now. in the coming decade, most taiwan export, around 60-70% will go to china, no taiwaness politician willing to dmg their economy, risk of war just to announce independence. also china is play the long term cause as long as china economy grow, so does their military. by 2040, it will be very difficult for any nation to intervene if there is a war in taiwan strait.
     
  24. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,210
    Likes Received:
    641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    china-russia relationship is more of convenience enemy of my enemy is my friend. they are not gonna give russia free $$, they have their own self interest.
     
  25. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2020
    Messages:
    7,801
    Likes Received:
    3,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And their self interest is getting oil on the cheap paid for with the marked up goods they likely bought with US dollars.
     

Share This Page