Ron DeSantis sends two planes of illegal immigrants to Martha's Vineyard

DESANTIS: "The president didn't scramble to get his cabinet together when we had...53 migrants die in some trailer in Texas.. [...] It's only when you have 50 illegal aliens end up in very wealthy, rich enclave that [Biden] decides to scramble on this."

 

OK, now I am replying, to argue a point. It is not the official position of the Left-- all of the Right's bogus claims, to the contrary-- that we have open borders. A person must enter, even for only a visit, through officially designated routes, for potential screening. Hence, these people, as I understand it, were here illegally. That means they are going to be in some legal trouble, and will need to deal with our immigration authority, ICE. They may have legitimate claims for political asylum, but those will be decided, by a court.

The law would not allow that these illegal entrants to our country, could now just begin new lives, in Martha's Vineyard, no questions asked. Our law also frowns on the transporting of people, known or suspected to be illegal aliens, over state lines. Even if he is not prosecuted for it, what DeSantis did was criminal-- make no mistake about that. And he has no defense, even to others' sympathies, if not to the law, of ridding his own state of these aliens, who'd evaded proper channels, in their entry of our country. He picked them up, in Texas!

This is nothing other than a craven political stunt, done at the expense of Florida taxpayers, and with an indifference to the feelings of the people, who had walked all this way, to start new lives, in America. Finally, abusing women and children in this manner, to be seen only his pawns, speaks incredibly poorly of DeSantis' character (and must cause one to question the character, of anyone who finds this act by DeSantis, to manifest his toughness).

 

https://twitter.com/Sky_Lee_1/status/1570789631570096128?s=20&t=nhnpg2F_Ix8Qr8pOE9J64w


Some peeps going to be getting in HUGE trouble over this.

 

I didn't realize that these people were not here illegally, at all. If I understood correctly, they all had been processed, upon entry, and were awaiting their hearings, over their asylum claims. In the interim, however, they were required to check in, periodically, with immigration officials. DeSantis & company not only lied to them about the homes & jobs that awaited them, in Martha's Vineyard, but were involved with Homeland Security agents, falsifying these people's identification and giving them false addresses, to ensure that they would be deemed to be out of compliance, and so be removed from the country. The lawyer was right, in deeming this, "sadistic."

Even more shocking to me, though, than the lauding of DeSantis' move, in some quarters, is hearing that Homeland Security personnel participated. This points to a serious breakdown of order, and lack of respect for authority, within that department. All those agents should immediately be fired.

Maybe they can get DeSantis to fly them away for a holiday, at least, as a way of expressing his thanks (at Florida taxpayer expense, of course).

 

Hi again, and thank you.

That post helped to make my morning brighter.

Best wishes to you and yours.

 

Harris gets a bad rap because she's useless. She was supposed to be taking care of the border and hasn't done anything. In fact, she hasn't done anything about anything she's supposed to be working on. She's not the alpha of anything.

 

Every vice president in history has played second fiddle to the president ..

just because FOX news wil not report on her activities does not mean she is doing nothing

 

She was put in charge of the border problem. 2 years later, we still have a border problem. Has nothing to do with Fox News. Has nothing to do with playing 2nd fiddle. Where is the legislation? Where is the plan?

 

@Eleuthera

Your post remained part of the box with my quote, but here is your reply, to my post:

What DeSantis did is a political stunt in response to another political stunt by the DNC or whatever cabal it is that actually controls Biden. Maybe, likely, Obama controls Biden through underlings in the White House.

Barack's 'political stunt' of flooding borders with immigrants is more than a stunt. As the end result is the flooding of states with an invasion, and therefore a criminal act far more significant than Fast & Furious.

How could Fmr. President Obama, or even current President Biden, "flood the border with immigrants?" Do you not see the migrants as human beings, with minds of their own? Do you not feel the potent economic & social (and presumably, ever more so, environmental) factors do not provide incentive, enough, to impel their migration? As to why it is higher now: Covid, no doubt, worsened already bad situations in many countries, just as it hurt our own economy, and stirred citizen antagonisms, here. Also, we are told to expect greater and greater throngs of those fleeing the devastating effects of climate change (though this is something I'll guess you probably see as a hoax-- is that just the part about humans being the cause, or even that we are seeing more extreme weather, than in the past?).

Finally, I'll note an interesting figure, about the way border crossers were handled, toward the end of the Trump Administration. According to the Pew Research Center, 83% of migrant encounters were "expulsed," which means sent back in the other direction, toward Mexico, from whence they came, rather than apprehended. Yet many of these, merely tried again. And, under those circumstances, why couldn't one, or wouldn't one, keep on trying?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/13/migrant-encounters-at-u-s-mexico-border-are-at-a-21-year-high/?amp=1

Under Biden, apprehensions rose from 17%, in January 2021, up to 53%, in the period through July. Additionally, not only did the Biden Admin. choose to keep in place at that time, the Article 42 protocols invoked by Trump, which allowed immediate expulsions of those apprehended, without hearings-- which was criticized, by immigration advocates-- but they added the new feature of not merely expelling them across the border, to a part of Mexico with which they were familiar. They initiated flying Central American immigrants thousands of miles away from our border, and dropping them in a fairly remote part of southern Mexico (which even global organizations criticized, as dangerous for the migrants).

While I'm not sure if the objections have led to the ending of these flights, another policy instituted by the Biden Administration has, instead of just putting those who are expelled, back over in a part of Mexico with which they are familiar, and may have contacts as well as support, for another attempted cross, begun "lateral flights." These may be the source (along with Trump's tweets) of the spurious idea, that Biden is distributing illegals, throughout the U.S., and that is also the idea that some of the naive immigrants have, when they're put on a plane, which doesn't head into Mexico. Instead, the plane flys to a different part of our very long border with Mexico, from which they are brought into an unfamiliar part of Mexico. It should come as little surprise, that advocates now complain that this is cruel, as it gets up the hopes of some migrants, who think like the conspiracy advocates on the Right, and believe they are being settled in America, only to have those hopes dashed.

In short, it appears that Biden is doing everything within his power to try to discourage those who attempt to illegally enter our country. Here are some more sources, underwriting the facts I just related, with their good journalistic reputations.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58207124

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1271211

Now, tell me what evidence you have, that this flood of immigrants is being orchestrated, by any political person, on the left. It is clearly an additional difficulty, for Biden to have to deal with, and it hurts the Democrats, politically. Accordingly, even the idea that the left would want this, seems farfetched to me (so please include, along with any evidence, a reasonable rationale). If they could do this, why would they not call up the flood, when it would hurt a Republican President?

 

It was orchestrated when EVERY candidate raised their hand when asked about free healthcare and education. It proved they’re not serious and considering they stopped construction of the wall, totally for open borders, since they have no plan otherwise to stop the flow. They’re STILL welcoming them as long as they go where they want them to go, clogging up red areas and forcing them to waste funds on the leeches. But send them to Martha’s Vineyard and it’s a crisis? Oh please.

They claim Republicans are using them as pawns??? Democrats have been using illegals as pawns for decades.

 

the border has been a problem since the Alamo

should we blame davy crocket??

 

Maybe they can get DeSantis to fly them away for a holiday, at least, as a way of expressing his thanks (at Florida taxpayer expense, of course).

How about YOUR back yard?

Hey, You buy them all tents.

 

While I have never been a fan of Harris's, I think you are being unfair, here. First off, though I don't know that Kamala had anything to do with them (would guess, in fact, that she probably did not), the Administration has employed tactics that must be seen, at least, as more effective remedy than the gratuitous cruelty, of the previous Administration. For an overview of these, please see my recent post, in this thread:

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...rthas-vineyard.603809/page-26#post-1073733110

I know that these have not solved the problem-- there's the rub: it is not really "solvable," at least not in two, or even four years. In fact, I will predict right now, at almost no risk to myself, of being incorrect, that a decade from now, no matter which Party has controlled things in the interim, there will still be a problem. The only caveat I would include-- as it might be the only thing to stem the tide of immigration-- would be that this prediction assumes that our country does not economically collapse (which I, unlike some radical doomsayers, find to be a wholely unbelievable scenario). Adding to the unfairness of your judging criteria, however, is your asking where is the legislation, Harris has helped to craft. Legislation, of course, requires Congressional support. And our Congress is especially split at this juncture, both in its evenly split division between Parties, as well as in its partisan rancor, and contentiousness. Now consider how long it has been stated, by both Parties, that our immigration system needs an overhaul. And yet, over all those years, with each Party getting a much more favorable balance, than currently exists for Democrats (and which may well, shortly, be lost), how much corrective legislation has been produced?



As far as plans, there are really only two, which could theoretically end the problem. From the hard right side, is the proposal (at least from members, on this debate board) that we militarize the entire length of our southern border. Not only would this come at great expense, and be, I think, Unconstitutional, as a long term deployment, at least without a declaration of war, I doubt all would find the problem "solved," if our solution involved the inevitable killing of some desperate migrants, as conditions in their part of the world devolve, both economically, and politically. It is a cruel place, to be putting people, between a violent, drug cartel, and a top notch, professional army. As to the mere idea of a "wall" this would not stop the problem, any more than it has stopped Palestinians from tunnelling under Israeli fortifications. Certainly, some walls might be helpful, as well as more electronic surveillance, "invisible walls," provided they are backed up by sufficient manpower, to readily respond. But all these do not really solve anything, only perpetuate an ongoing conflict between those wanting to get in, and our measures to keep them out. Much like our " safeguards" against computer hackers, there will always be other ways for immigrants to enter. In the militarized scenario, we would predictably see scenes play out, all along our Gulf and So. California Pacific coasts, of migrants in boats, trying to land; leading to further, naval defenses, on our part, and tragic consequences, inescapably, for some of these ill-equipped, amphibious "invaders." And, of course, considering how much some of even these poor ones pay, to be brought here, by smugglers, there would eventually be some offering, for a price, to fly cargo loads of them to Canada, where we have another, even longer, border to defend. In short, this trajectory is a loser, to any who don't envision the answer as turning our nation into another Soviet style, Iron-Curtained prison, with much easier accessed borders, than Russia's arctic coast, or frozen Siberian tundra.

The other way to address the problem, gets more to its root, but is even more challenging, perhaps too dauntingly, for those favoring the simplistic answer, of a wall. And the expense is also great, though I would not presume to be able to have any realistic basis to say how it would compare with the previous, military scenario. This path involves our aiding our southern neighbors to greater economic prosperity, political stability, and citizen safety. Obviously, this is a very long term project.

I will end with a third possiblity which used to be much spoken of, but which I never hear mentioned, today. It may not be a permanent solution, but it would certainly make a great difference, and quickly; and there is no reason that it could not be employed along with elements of the other two approaches. This remedial method is (obviously) to focus efforts, primarily, not on trying to find the illegal needles, amongst our economy's huge employee haystack, but to go after those who illegally employ them. If the punishments were severe enough, and we put only a small portion of the cost of either of the other ways to address the problem, into effective enforcement of these penalties, we would, naturally, remove the greatest incentive for immigrants to come here, illegally. They do not travel thousands of miles, to lay on Florida's beaches, but to work, and earn money. So, to get back to the topic of this thread, if Gov. DeSantis were really serious about addressing illegal immigration into FLORIDA-- which is, after all, the state which is supposed to be his top concern-- he would be proposing strict enforcement, and serious fines, against anyone employing undocumented workers, instead of staging political theatrics, of flying immigrants claiming political asylum, from Texas to Massachusetts. He does not do this, because businesses that employ illegals-- which the governor perhaps counts on, for contributions, or at least fears having lined up, against him-- would not like it. That, and none other, is the addressable core of the illegal immigration situation. It is also the proof, that DeSantis is a fraud.

 

Since I do not recognize your name, even though you are listed as an "active member," I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that this might still be new enough to you, so you have not quite gotten the hang of it, yet. I only came across your post by chance, as you did not correctly quote me, so that I would receive an "alert" of your reply. Again, I will extend you the presumption, that you had not been purposely attempting to respond, without giving me notice of it.

It is the generally preferred method, to those running this forum, for one to quote another member's full response, and then use editing tools, to highlight any particular part, to which one wishes to draw attention; I understand (especially as some of my own posts are long, and talk about numerous things which could, legitimately, be compartmentalized) if you take less than my full quote, provided you offer enough of its context. The way to excerpt only part of a quote (at least, my phone- accessed method), is to put your finger on the spot at which you wish to begin your cut, until you get a little blue line (with options above it), which you then draw down to the point at which you would like the quote to end. Next, remove your finger, and tap the option "quote," which will appear beneath the section, designated in blue.

Now, in response to your actual reply, and this is a case in point, why context is important: the "they," in that quote, refers to the Homeland Security officers who had cooperated with DeSantis' plan, and whom I said deserved immediate dismissal. It would be helpful if you were to follow this link, from Yulee's post, above, #629 (found in the lower right corner, of the wide screen view of the post):

https://twitter.com/Sky_Lee_1/status/1570789631570096128?s=20&t=nhnpg2F_Ix8Qr8pOE9J64w

(And no, I would not want the despicable s***bags, who changed these asylum seekers' documentation, which assured that many would fall out of compliance, & so be deported, camping in my back yard. The immigrants, however, are another story).

 

What Exactly what has she not done ?

 

Do you know what I’d like to see? I’ll tell you.

I’d like to see liberals go to Cape Cod and really bitch at those Spanish speaking Catholics who came from Europe and conquered the land now known as Venezuela. I’d also like them to demand that those descendants of white Europeans pay reparations for all the years they had slaves. Damn colonialists need to be put in their place.

 

Anywhere where the migrants wind up will be costly in many ways. Some states are so full and their resources are so exhausted, it's cheaper to transport them elsewhere, especially to places that claim to welcome them.

I'm sorry this needed to be explained to you.

 

Where is the legislation? Where is the plan ??

the GOP had 2 years of complete control of the government ..the only idea they could come up with was to support trump and his silly wall ..they did NOTHING

the GOP has blocked the democrats at every turn

including any immigration legislation

the GOP has ONE agenda, it is to oppose anything the democrats attempt

when is the GOP going to introduce legislation or have a plan for ANYTHING??

 

Been white...

 

I've seen many people talk about going after employers. But that isn't as simple as it sounds. To begin with our laws require that in order to "nail" the employer that employer must knowingly hire an illegal immigrant. "knowingly" is a high bar to prove. However it is, imo, the right standard. Especially with our system of innocent until proven guilty. There are many ways to "prove" citizenship to someone that isn't trained to spot forgeries. Can we really expect employers to know how to spot such? No, we can't. In addition many illegals use stolen identities. Which would come up as legitimate, especially for an employer. Now there are countries, such as Australia, that make the employers responsible regardless if they "knowingly" hired them or not. And it works for them. But they also have stricter immigration laws and are able to patrol their borders much easier than we can. Not to mention our countries emphasis on "Rights" compared to Australia. For them illegals have no Rights beyond treating them in a non-cruel way. For the US, they have more Rights.

Now, as far as helping out other countries create more stability and progressing them economically...They actually have to WANT the help. Most of them don't as they don't Trust the US. Be that for valid reasons or not doesn't matter. Oh they'll take our money for sure...who doesn't like free money? But beyond that they want nothing to do with us. Besides, how do you help countries with corrupt governments? Replace them with people more to our liking? We've tried that....never ends well does it?

Now, you talk about militarizing our border. Wall, etc etc. You use Israel as an example of how people still get in. No one expects the wall to catch 100% of illegals. Just like walls and doors won't stop burglaries from happening. The goal isn't to 100% stop it. That's impossible. Even if you advance countries for stability and economics...there will still be those that come here illegally. The goal is to reduce it as much as possible. Sure, 100% would be the best possible outcome, but that is unrealistic. Just like expecting murder laws to stop all murders is unrealistic.

NOTHING is going to stop illegal immigration 100%. Except to have a one world government and no borders. But that sure isn't going to happen any time soon.

 

Race baiting noted, and dismissed as being ridiculous.

 

Yup.... Mr. Fiscally Responsible.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-taxpayers-paid-615-000-205840003.html

Do you know how many poor Floridians could use 12.3K??.
Do you know how many illegals from Florida Florida paid to transport??

(Answers = All of them and None)

What a boob!... Sort of hope somebody this dumb does run in 2024, in place of the original dumb guy... Not that it really matters...

 

So you're mad at DeSantis and Abbot for not keeping them in their states? You don't think they have enough yet?

 

Though I don't agree with your answer, because it treats what DeSantis did as sincere, when it was not so, in the least (the people he tricked, were not even in his own state, but in Texas). I have also explained, in a couple of places, that the most effective method of reducing illegal residency in any state, if that were truly DeSantis' goal, would be to crack down on those employing undocumented workers, which he has not done.

Nevertheless, I wanted to give a "thumbs up," to your concluding line; hopefully that type of phenomenon is something that will be repeatedly seen, in the future-- by @smalltime , though it is not likely to do much good, to someone who views himself as apparently above the rest of we mortals:

Of course, his hubris is only matched by the stupidity of starting one's posts with unattributed quotes from others which, naturally, anyone will assume is part of his own post, and so mistake his meaning. Yet, I am now getting curious to see how long it will take him to grasp this fact, assuming he ever does. In the meantime, however, there should be some fun replies, like yours, for the reading!

 

How can I be mad at anybody who simultaneously provides this level of moronic entertainment at a potential political cost to himself?