Saudi Arabia suspends talks on Israeli relations normalization - turns to Iran.

your definition of ethnic cleansing is not what most people think of. You deny Hamas wants to wipe out Israel. Again why does any American side with Hamas?

 

OK, so like I said in post #46, I do not condone either side of this conflict. I think they are both wrong. But I will at least say this: if I were to gauge which side is worse, which side is "more wrong", I'd have to pick Hamas. But two wrongs don't make a right, and even if Israel is the "less wrong" side, they are still wrong. Now, in terms of American politics and support: I do believe that we must support Israel. However we need to also ask Israel to show restraint and minimize collateral damage to innocent civilians.

 

that's reasonable

 

Nope.

nope.

I would blame the man who shoved a woman into a jail cell with a rapist.

What causes the hatred of reason? What causes the love of ethnic cleaning? What causes the hatred of reading? What causes the love of Satan?

At least now you're adding weasel words in you support of killing innocent bystanders.

 

Did you just finish watching Fox News?

Who has the power? Hamas or Israel?

 

Why do I think that Israel is the least wrong side? Simple. Because they started with very good intentions. They are the only truly democratic country in that area, and the one that embraces values such as equal treatment of women. It was only by virtue of being repeatedly attacked and threatened with annihilation, that Israel progressively became more and more radicalized. At first Israel was 100% right. But at one point in History, Israel little by little became wrong too. I think the turning point was the unregulated settlement of Israelis in Cisjordania, disrespecting their own treaties and rules; this issue is now so complex that it prevents a 2-state solution. I also never thought that completely blocking the Gaza strip was a fair way to deal with it. So I think that these were regrettable actions. However I do see how Israel progressively moved into these actions, out of self-preservation. For example, the occupation of the Golan Heights came out of necessity since the enemies of Israel were using the geographic elevation to send bombs and rockets into Israel. But from the right to defend themselves, the Israelis did progressively become oppressors too.

 

Which is why they should stop burning books and read them.

No, I said, "That doesn't necessarily mean the extermination of the Jews. But it does mean that they want to rule all of Israel."

Obviously, if this happened which is highly unlikely at the moment, Israel would cease to exist as a "Jewish" homeland.

Once again, it's not a binary decision. I feel like I'm arguing with Putin.

 

I never, ever watch Fox News. I don't watch CNN either. I watch Italian telegiornale on RAI Play, Brazilian Jornal Nacional on Globoplay, French Le Journal de France 2 on TV5 Monde, and so on and so forth. I find that foreign journalism is WAY more balanced in their opinions than what we see here in the United States where the channels cater to specific groups of spectators and say what those groups want to hear, rather than presenting unbiased views.

Given that I speak fluently several European languages, I do frequently watch foreign news sources.

Who has the power? Israel has more. Hamas has power over Gaza, though.

 

CenterField said: ↑
OK, so like I said in post #46, I do not condone either side of this conflict. I think they are both wrong. But I will at least say this: if I were to gauge which side is worse, which side is "more wrong", I'd have to pick Hamas. But two wrongs don't make a right, and even if Israel is the "less wrong" side, they are still wrong. Now, in terms of American politics and support: I do believe that we must support Israel. However we need to also ask Israel to show restraint and minimize collateral damage to innocent civilians.

Turtledude: that's reasonable
_______________________________________________________________

Sensible outcome above. There's no 'win' in for any outsider when it comes to debating the Arab/Palestinian conflict. There's simply to much entrenched hatred, mistrust and bloodshed on both sides to make such debate meaningful. Usually people involved in the conflict don't seem to want an outsiders opinion, they want them to take 'their' side, not offer compromises. And to the extent there are entrenched interests in both camps who won't settle for anything less than 100% of the pie and don't care how many people in the middle have to suffer or die before they get it? Then those interest groups deserve each other.

Sadly upon years of reflection I've come to the conclusion that its a case of 'not my circus, not my monkeys'. Day come's a majority on both sides stand up and say 'enough is enough'? Fine them I'm in.

 

Excellent post.

 

It's all the same. People letting others think for them.

Officially, Israel occupies Gaza. Gaza has never been independent and never has been recognized as a separate country.

Israel is responsible for the safety, protection, and care of the people of Gaza since Israel decided to occupy that region. Israel shirked this responsibility and let Hamas come to power and rule in their stead. This shirking of their responsibility went badly for Israel. So, Israel decided to throw a fit by recklessly dropping bombs on the Palestinians.

Israel should Identify the murderers, arrest the murderers, and then publicly try them - not drop bombs on apartment complexes hoping to accidentally kill a couple. People might say this is hard and difficult - but this is the nature of being good as oppose to evil. Rule of law - not rule of vengeance.

 

It's not all the same. Foreign journals tend to present the facts and let the spectator decide what to think about those facts, rather than issuing opinions. See my signature.

I agree with this part of your post.

 

No it is NOT.
This is exactly the false propaganda of Hamas ISIS.

 

So you claim Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the U.N. security council, and the U.N. general assembly are ISIS.

Is everyone who disagrees with you ISIS?

 

If you understood that from my based claim than English is not your native language.
According to Pro Islamo Jihado Palestinian Hamas ISIS, all Israel is occupied besides Gaza.

 

So, English is not your native language.

I'll move on since this is simply a misunderstanding due to language.

 

OK... Move on.
May Allah guide you to the light and Not to darkness where pro Hamas ISIS followers are.

 

They were never given the right to self governance

 

They had the right to the vote and chose to elect terrorists.

 

I think so many of them are caught up so tightly in the oppressed vs oppressor identity politics philosophy that they fail to recognize it's democracy vs terrorism.

 

The Hamas charter says it is their mission to exterminate all Jews, not just in Israel. You should read it before replacing their real positions with imagine ones concocted out of thin air.

 

I hope Christian nations like the US don't fail the test.

 

Hamas leadership is not living in Palestine, they are in Doha, Turkey and Qatar. They are telling the citizens of Palestine to stay where they are in Gaza City.

 

You should take your own advice.

 

You are correct. Israel should have been more brutal and authoritarian which would have prevented this brutal attack on Israeli citizens.