New Rule: From the River to the Sea | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)

It's not about it being morally "right" or "wrong" it's about facing reality. The argument makes perfect sense and is logical.

It was morally "wrong" what the American colonists did to the Native Americans. But at the end of the day it HAPPENED, as things like this have happened everywhere on Earth since the dawn of human civilization. Peoples get conquered, killed, displaced by war, famine, etc. Borders change, territories change, rulers change, etc. And as an unapologetic American patriot who loves my country and loves history I am not ashamed to say that the infamous Trail of Tears is one of the most difficult things for me to read about because it was heartbreaking what happened to the Native Americans at the hands of the "occupation".

However it DID happen, and what I would 100% not accept under any circumstances is a Native American rebellion against the United States in 2023 for it. This country wouldn't accept that. If modern Native tribes began creating armed militias and attacking people then running back to Reservations then whichever Reservation was supporting that would have a real bad day at the hands of State and Federal authorities. We wouldn't "understand" that they are "fighting for their land back" or whatever.

I live directly on top of Native land, my nice modern 3 bedroom 3 bath house sits on land that 140 years ago used to belong to the largest Native tribe in the State until settlers showed up and displaced them. They still live around here, some live within the community while many others live secluded in their own towns and villages. Most of the Natives are extremely poor especially compared to other demographics and the majority of those I see holding up signs on the side of the road begging for money are unfortunately Native peoples who we literally just kicked off their land and said go figure it out. But saying all that to say as much as it sucks and is completely unfair this is my house and my land now, I live on it and I pay for it. And if any member of the Native population around here tries to "take back" what they consider to be THEIR rightful land from me then they will end up in prison, or worse. It may not be what I'm saying out loud but it's basically what I'm saying by living here and not moving, "get over it", you lost and you aren't getting this land back...

We all like to take the moral high ground but I live in reality. I'm not giving my land back to a Native family who my government kicked out a hundred years ago so I don't blame anyone else around the world for not accepting such terms either. Palestinians you lost your land, Europeans with the power to do so decided to redraw the world map and create a Jewish State where you used to live. It happens, you aren't the only ones this happens to it's been happening for millennia and will continue to happen in the future. No it's not RIGHT, but it's reality, and trying to fight back against the State next door who is way more powerful than you is probably not the best idea...

And before anyone tries the argument of "how would you like it if" my answer is simple, I wouldn't like it. It would suck, that's why I fight for the country who is powerful enough to do the conquering and displacing and not be on the receiving end of it.

 

Folks know exactly what such phrases mean and any attempt to "explain it" as anything other than what it means is nothing more than a deliberate attempt to argue in bad faith. For many on the Left it's not about actually doing anything it's about ensuring to take the proper moral stance on any given subject and remaining in goosestep with the rest of the faction. It's "wrong" for Israel to be where it is on the map therefore the Palestinians are "justified" for pulling off Oct 7. That's where it stops though, no further research is conducted into the future consequences of actually implementing any of the policies that are being advocated for. It's just about feigning moral superiority by openly taking the "correct" moral stance.

For example years ago on this very forum a discussion was being had regarding some Native American protest going on in Seattle about how some district was on sacred land or whatever and how we should give the land back to them. The usual suspects were all out there protesting along side the Natives talking about how America is evil and we stole their land etc. I simply chimed into the conversation in the thread and said "ok then move"...

I mean seriously, a bunch of white people are out there with their signs and tie die shirts chanting white American colonialism is evil and we stole Native land and it's wrong etc. Ok then get off their land....You live on it, move lol...How are you going to protest in the street talking about this is stolen land when you live in apartment 3b on the corner of the stolen land lol....Pack your bags and get out then. But of course they won't actually do that because that requires taking personal action. They want to TAKE the "proper moral stance" on the issue but not actually DO anything about it because that would require personal sacrifice. So instead they'll protest about climate change and stolen Native land while sitting in the middle of stolen land in a fossil fuel guzzling air conditioned building drinking Seattle's finest coffee which is probably imported from slave labor in South America somewhere.

Everyone knows what would happen if Israel just dismantled the border in Gaza and granted the Palestinians freedom of movement throughout all of their historic lands that Israel now occupies. They will pretend that it would all be kumbaya and everyone would just coexist peacefully and that's all the Palestinians wanted and Israel are just big bad meanies who don't want to share with the Palestinians. Take that border down and see what happens. But it's the "morally RIGHT" thing to SAY, because it used to be their land. It's not about living in actual reality, it's about feigning moral superiority. I mean lets get real, the LGBT community is out here running around with Queers for Palestine signs and whatnot lol...These folks aren't THAT DUMB, they are doing that because they have to always take the "side" of the "oppressed" over anything else including full blown logic. Outside of a few select actual idiots none of these folks genuinely believe that LGBT people living on the stretch of land between Jordan and the Mediterranean would be better off if Hamas was in charge. They just have to say stuff like that because their entire ideology is based around remaining in goosestep with the hive even to the point of absurdity. Therefore in this case the Palestinian people are "oppressed" and the more powerful Jewish people are the "oppressors" therefore they have to side with the oppressed. Even though the poor oppressed peoples military wing would kill them all if they were in charge.

 

The difference at least for me personally is the fact that I am honest with myself and don't feign moral outrage over things. I feel most other people are in the same boat. It's not that I'm sitting here laughing and joking all day at the fact that my house is sitting on historic Native land, it's just that I live in reality and am not going to pretend like I "care" to win societal brownie points. Simply "caring" without being willing to actually do anything is pointless and disingenuous in my book. History happened and no matter how hard I try none of us can ever change history. Sure we can have a discussion about possibly making amends for some historical wrongdoings and that's a discussion I'm willing to have but not to a point where I'm going to personally deal with it in any capacity so the discussions become pointless. I'm not giving my land back so the discussion ends.

I think that's the biggest difference here, I'm willing to openly say out loud what others won't because it "sounds wrong" from a pure outside the box moral perspective. It's just dumb in my book for me to sit here and complain about Colonial genocide of the Native Americans and the conquering of their lands and saying we should give it back because they were here first while I sit in my nice house directly on Native land drinking a beer...It's also pretty disingenuous of me to sit here and complain about Palestinians getting their land stolen by Jews when I'm sitting here on land stolen from Native Americans and would not tolerate under any circumstance them trying to take it back. So who the hell am I to sit here and cheer on Palestine and condemn Israel's response to what they did? We'd do the same thing if our "native" peoples decided to try an armed uprising against the United States to regain control of their lost territory. In fact I'd probably be one of the ones the government sent to stop them and I'd have no problem doing so if they tried to pull that. Sure the territorial issues between Israel and Palestine are a bit more modern than the American conquest of the Native Americans but as Bill Mahr said at what point do you have to "get over it"? How many years have to go by before "history is history"? How come the Assyrians don't get their country back from Turkey, Iraq, and Syria? They were there before these modern borders were drawn and there's like 5 million of them still around. Plenty to occupy a country. Give it back.

 

Oh I didn't believe it was directed at me I was just trying to further expand upon the point you were making. My post was on your side talking about the virtue signalers.