Avdiivka, Longtime Stronghold for Ukraine, Falls to Russians

That silly propaganda collage doesn't get any more true the more times you post it, Bill, nor does it somehow excuse this fascist invasion and theft of land that you keep ra-ra cheerleading here.

The actual Nazis are the imperialists invading a neighboring country in order to steal its land and erase its language, culture and national identity, i.e. commit genocide. It's not people holding up flags in photographs. Nor was Stepan Bandera a Nazi. That is another myth and Big Lie that you just keep spouting.

 

Unlike Putlerstan...who hides in bunkers and abuses little boys.

 

This topic is not about Israelis. Stick to the topic plz.

 

Great pics again.....looks like Charlottesville....or maybe Alabama?....even Lake Charles?

 

My grandfathers, who fought Nazi in ww2 will be turning in their graves knowing that we are now arming the current days Nazi battalions in the Ukraine to the tune of billions.

 

Another one of those "links" .....I suspect the cheer team spends endless hours finding obscure links that are hard to upload.

 

Really....sounds like you're misinformed.

 

Hey, if he can get international help then I wouldn't cede an inch to Russia either.

 

He's already gotten almost a quarter trillion dollars in financial and military aid and is still getting his ass kicked.

More help ain't gonna help.

 

Last I checked Sovs got their a$$es kicked by camel humpers with a handful of Stingers.....

SU....270 mln
Afghanistan.....35 mln....back in the day.

End result ...SU collapse....Soviet military retreats with tails between the legs. Warsaw Pact dissolves.

Today....long story short....is RuZZian Fed collapse.


USA/NATO =2....soon 3.

RuZzia=0

 

Oh, so ****ing what!

Here we go----> Australian Nazis, recent news. Does that mean that we are ripe for invasion?

Again, I repeat. Ukraine has Nazis. So ****ing what?

Shall we do a tour of all the Nazi organisations around the world?

You guys are ****ing unbelievable. Not one grenade was tossed into Russia before they invaded. What Ukraine does is their own business. This is nothing less than a snot-nosed little runts attempt at Empire building and murderous punishment for Ukraine daring to turn their back on their old master.

 

Any evidence for that steaming pile?

 

Today ..... long story short ....

ADVEEVKA!!

 

OK, so Putin just did an interview with some American lapdog where he justified Hitler's invasion of Poland because Poland wouldn't give Hitler the land he wanted....but Ukraine are the Nazis. Sure.

It takes real fanaticism to keep pushing the same BS propaganda even after the guy who made it up basically admits that he is the real Nazi.

 

There is no 'negotiating.' People think 'negotiating' is Russia not keeping any parts of Ukraine that it currently holds. Which RUssia is never going to accept. Considering any sort of peace before Russia pulls out completely is the same as 'legalizing military conquest.' This does not leave Ukraine with any options for 'negotiation.' Either Ukraine *somehow* pushes Russian forces out (which clearly isn't going to happen), or Ukraine keeps fighting until there is no Ukraine. Anything in between is just 'letting Russia get away with military conquest.'

And to be fair, I can't honestly dispute that logic. But its worth mentioning that I'd rather Ukraine shrink by ~10% than wait for it to cease to exist entirely and become entirely Russia, which is what is slowly happening.

But any 'negotiation' cedes some sort of Russian victory, and it appears TPTB in the west would rather Ukraine be decimated than do anything of the sort. How they will rationalize an obliterated Ukraine into a 'victory' is anyone's guess... but I guess they think they're up to that task.

 

You leave out the option where we actually give Ukraine the hardware they need to win.

 

What hardware do you suppose will offset their crippling manpower shortage?

...or are you advocating we send over troops?

Ukraine war: Putin avoids further mobilisation while Kyiv suffers manpower shortage (theconversation.com)
Ukraine chases draft dodgers amid war manpower shortage - The Washington Post
Frontline Ukrainian infantry units report acute shortage of soldiers - The Washington Post

"Kyiv is resorting to increasingly draconian measures to get sufficient numbers to the front. It recently extended mobilisation to previously exempt groups such as the partially disabled."

They are FORCING disabled people to the front. This war is over. THEY ****ING LOST.

 

Negotiate as I intended means basically give Putin what he has now (which he has sent signals that he would accept) and for Ukraine to stop bad-mouthing Russia (what he calls nazification of Ukraine). And then hope for the best.

If the West continues to supply weapons Russia cannot win, but if the west is going to pull support then it's better than Ukraine negotiate obviously while it's in a position to do so.

 

Good point but hardware absolutely makes up for lack of manpower.

 

Link for the quarter trillion. Thanks.

 

I suspect they are not doing that because Russia would not tolerate being pushed out. They giving just enough so that the line is held but not so much that would aggravate Russia unduly.

The only hope for Ukraine to win is for the current regime in Russia to fall. You do understand that don't you?

 

It can, force multipliers do make personnel more effective... but that's what we've already been doing for years. Do you think there's anything we can send, that we havn't yet, that will offset their current (and increasing) manpower shortage enough to result in pushing Russia out of Ukraine?

 

Russia just took what our media has been referring to as a 'stronghold' despite our provision of weapons. Force multipliers can only multiply so much. Ukraine is running out of people who will fight. There is a point at which no amount of weapons will offset for a lack of manpower, and the weapons will simply be destroyed (or captured) due to a lack of people to use them effectively and protect them and their users. We can be assured that neither Ukraine nor Russia, nor likely our own corporate media, is going to tell us when that point has been reached. Given that Ukraine is now conscripting the disabled to the front lines (see my previous posts), we are rapidly approaching that point, if we're not already there.

Russia can win even if we continue to supply weapons, if Ukraine runs out of enough troops to use those weapons effectively.

 

From one year ago:

"Ukraine’s survival hinges on Avdiivka..."

"Although Avdiivka is a small city with a pre-war population of just over 31,000, it is important to both sides for a number of reasons.

"For Ukraine, it is a position that has been built up during the pre-invasion civil conflict and is part of the complex interconnected defence system running from Zaporizhzhia up to Toretsk, Bakhmut, and Siversk.

"Politically, the Russian side has identified the shelling of the city of Donetsk as a point of grievance and claims much of the fire comes from the Avdiivka area.

"It would also be a notable step towards one of Vladimir Putin’s primary objectives in taking the Donbas."

https://unherd.com/newsroom/ukraines-survival-hinges-on-avdiivka/

 

Yes I was reading somewhere they were severely out-manned from three different directions by a much larger Russian force.

I'm reading a variety of articles about a shortage of manned personnel but not necessarily running out. But I'm also reading they were out of ammo. So before we write them off wouldn't it be great to see what a fully equipped Ukraine army can do?