Who didn't secure the border?

As YouTuber Brian Tyler Cohen says, 'Honestly, who needs Democrats cutting ads when you got Republicans who say stuff like this?

Quoting Rep Chip Roy (R-Texas)

"Another member of Congress, resigned today.
So, now I'll be told, 'Chip, now we'll have a one seat majority,
or two seat majority, and I don't even know what it is, anymore.

Let me ask you a question, 'Does it matter?'.

In 2018, we had the House, we had the Senate and we had the Whitehouse,
and we had a bigger majority than we have today, and we utterly failed to secure the border, totally dropped the ball, didn't do it."

https://youtube.com/shorts/Q9leEZ3WSs4

So, the point is, quit bellyaching about securing the border, because if you repubs couldn't get it done when you had both houses and the presidency, you have no leg to stand on complaining about Biden.

Oh,. yeah,. numbers. Well let's talk about that. Trump's numbers were due to cruel and inhumane policies that resulted in few thousand kids, DELIBERATELY losing contact with their parents and to this day, they having reconnected.

Heck, if I wanted to really go cruel and inhumane, why not just shoot everyone that crosses, and viola, stat is zero.

Of course, that's Reductio Ad Absurdum, but I'm doing to prove a point, stats resulting from cruel and inhumane policies are not valid stats because they were achieved immorally, just as money earned illegally is not legitimate money. You can't brag about how much money you earned if you earned it by counterfeiting it.

So you can't brag about getting border stats low if your policies were...

1. Family Separation: As part of a “zero-tolerance” policy, families were forcibly separated at the border for only a misdemeanor (first time crossing is a misdemeanor). Children were taken away from their parents, many permanently separated, leading to immense trauma and distress12.
2. Weaponizing Legal Status: Immigrants’ legal status was used as a political tool. Their vulnerability was exploited for political gain1.
3. Visa Pulling: Visas were revoked without proper explanation or justification, causing uncertainty and hardship for affected individuals1.
4. Targeting Good Samaritans: The administration zeroed in on individuals providing humanitarian aid to migrants, creating a chilling effect on compassionate assistance1.
5. Hiring Ruthless Nativists: Trump’s primary policy architect had a nativist stance, which influenced harsh immigration measures1.
6. Migrant Protection Protocols (Remain in Mexico): In January 2019, the Trump administration implemented the Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP), which forced asylum seekers to wait in Mexico for their US immigration hearings. This policy created a population boom in migrant camps on the Mexican side of the border. Human rights organizations documented hundreds of kidnappings, rapes, and assaults of migrants who were waiting in the sprawling camps for their asylum hearings13. The reinstatement of this policy by the Biden administration has drawn criticism from human rights groups, who consider it inhumane42.

Also, title 42 allowed Trump to get better stats, but that was due to the pandemic, and when the pandemic ended, title 42 ended, as well.

Now, repubs are okay with these cruel and inhumane polices, but Dems are not, and don't give me any crap about 'secure border', when your side couldn't get it done when you had both houses and the presidency. A repub led Senate Bill was offered, to address many of the problems, but Speaker Johnson, kowtowing to Trump's orders, refused to put it to the floor for a vote, and it would have passed. See, Trump doesn't want the border problem solved, he just wants to make it a campaign issue, and that's putting party above country.

https://reason.com/2021/01/20/trumps-immigration-policy-was-brutal-and-inhumane-will-biden-fix-it/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ration-family-separation-immigrants-joe-biden

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...-trump-s-remain-mexico-policy-border-n1281580

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/22/trump-v-biden-us-mexico-border-policies-analysis

 

The number of illegals coming in under Biden is 3-4 times the number that came under Trump. That, not the vapid jabber above, is the answer to your question.

 

Republicans created this problem, now they want to blame it on dems

they been screaming to the world how easy it is to come here, what did they expect, they listened, they came

 

The standard democratic ploy.
Blame conservatives, or the RNC or ideally Trump.

Never let a liberal or the DNC and especially Biden be blamed.
Deny, deny, deny.

 

Well, you could get the stat to zero if you just shoot everyone who crosses.

I used Reductio Ad Absurdum to prove a point, that stats resulting from inhumane and cruel and child abusing policies are not valid, just as you can't brag about winning females sports if you are a biological male.

And that Bullseye, destroys your premise.

 

Maybe if you reduce the absurdity some more...?

I remember you telling me earlier that I must have a counter argument or I didn't have any sort of valid point.... And then I come along and read your post here... And it's almost all I can do not to laugh out loud

 

What complete logical fallacy.

You can't prove AT ALL your premise.

AND your premise is essentially that being nice allows more people to cross and thus the stats aren't comparable. Sorry, that's complete bullshit.

One administration was successful regarding the border and one wasn't (AND YOU CAN'T STAND IT). You are BEYOND DESPERATE to defend your side so you come up with this complete, logically invalid, nonsense.

Get a real argument.....for once.

 

It is a simple comparison. Compare how many have crossed the border illegally including getaways under Trump as opposed to Biden. Many more illegals mean many more terrorists.

 

Did you know that just because you keep repeating something doesn't magically make it true?

It's almost like you forgot Biden telling the immigrants to immediately surge the border

 

No matter how much you want to spin the narrative the immigration is Trump's fault, and no matter how many alt leftists PRETEND that's the case, this isn't gonna fool the on-the-fence moderates ONE DAMN BIT.
You say numbers matter? GOOD! The numbers of Illegals is WAY higher under Dirty Joe and so are the crimes they commit. People SEE this no matter how you want to spin it. Trump's pledge to curtail illegal immigration (which he did with much success) was one of the reasons people voted for him in the first place. I think its cute they want to spin it as a republican issue but i also think it doesn't matter. Hard democrats are gonna vote biden no matter what (even if they know that border spin is BS, these people never cared about that issue much in the first place)
Its the moderates you folks need to be worried about. I feel very excited about RFK reaching into Biden's voter pool. They are gonna have to come up with better voter scam than they did in 2020. The word "bloodbath" comes to mind.
CHEERS and keep up THAT SPIN!!!!

 

Yeah, we can criticize Biden for his open border policy...all day long.

 

I didn't see democrat cities screaming and hollering about being overrun with illegals during the Trump years.

 

You offered a counter argument. Thank you.

And I rebutted, and the debate moves forward, and that's how it's supposed to me.

The only thing that are not arguments are attempts to kill the conversation, or snarky one liners< for example:


"poppycock" (with no path of reasoning)
"You're wrong, of course" (with no path of reasoning)
"that's bullpucky" (with no path of reasoning).
"That's cute, did you think of that by yourself?" (a snarky non argument, no attempt to contribute to the conversation).

Etc.

But, my argument was given, it doesn't have to be correct, but it was an argument, and you rebutted, and a countered again, and thus the debate moves forward, as it should be.

I don't think you understand the distinction I'm making here.

FYI,, 'reductio ad absurdum' is a technique in philosophy to determine of an argument, once the logic is followed through to it's conclusion, is accurate.

By 'invalid' I do not mean 'incorrect', I mean 'non argument'. which mean it doesn't even rate being a bad argument.

 

That's a strawman. A humane policy doesn't equal 'nice', it merely means the policy has no unneeded cruelty.

Given your strawman, your comment fails.

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion as you often do.

 

You didn't have people intentionally shipping people for the express purpose of causing problems.

 

Why were laws not enacted when the republicans held majorities in congress and the White House? Why did Republicans not even entertain the bipartisan bill that the Border Patrol called the most conservative border proposal ever?

Why do y’all demand the president do congress’s job?

 

what I said was true and will always be true no matter how many times it's repeated

 

Congress's job is to write the laws - which the HAVE done; it is the President's job to enforce them. Oh, and when was the last time GOP held a filibuster-proof majority. As I also recall Trump's last two years was again a Dem congress.

 

That's just magical thinking. Why don't you head on over to just a man's thread where there is a detailed list of exactly what this administration has done to fuel this crisis.

 

First of all, once Biden let the illegals in, wouldn't the best place for them to go is a city that wants them, a sanctuary city?

Two, well, read it yourself.

Payback: 90% of illegal immigrants in secret program flown to Florida and Texas

The Biden administration’s program of secretly flying illegal immigrants directly from Latin America to U.S. cities dumps over 90% in hubs of two Southern states governed by the president’s harshest border critics, according to government data.

Some 347,959 migrants allowed into the secretive system fly directly to airports in Florida and Texas, with Florida receiving the vast majority at 325,995, according to an analysis of U.S. Customs and Border Protection numbers by the Center for Immigration Studies.
....................
“This early evidence suggests that a great many of these inadmissible alien passengers, probably a majority, initially land at international airports in Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis’s Florida,” said CIS, which reported that the program has let in 386,000 people since October 2022. “In fact, Florida turns out to be the top landing and U.S. customs processing zone for this direct-flights parole-and-release program, tallying at nearly 326,000 of the initial arrivals from inception through February.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...in-secret-program-flown-to-florida-and-texas/

 

It is very common for political hacks to blame the other side for what its side does. You should be used to it. I am.

 

Most of the “illegal” immigration we are seeing are amnesty seekers processed through laws congress has passed.

What law do you believe is not being enforced?

 

3-4 times more are apprehended than under Trump. Only God knows why Trump refused to apprehend more.

 

"caught and released" is the proper term for Biden's handling.