Arizona Grand Jury Indicts Donald Trump Allies, 11 Fake Electors

No way.

But for Donald Trump, most who died would still be alive, the 140 injured would not have been injured and the 1200 incarcerated would still be free citizens.

President Trump is practically, and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day [Jan 6], no question about it. The people that stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their President. And, having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories, and reckless hypole, which the defeated President kept shouting into the largest megaphone on planet earth.--Mitch McConnell

The juggernaut of rage experienced by the rioters came from somewhere.

From where do you suppose it came?

They were chanting 'stop the steal'. 'hang mike pence', and in their rage, people died and hundreds injured.

Who, do you honestly believe, gave them this idea, which erupted into the rage?

Who, might I ask?

Could it be Donald Trump, who.....

,...inculcated 'Democrats Stole The election" in to the minds of his base, in rally after rally after rally for a year or so, which began prior to the first ballot ever being cast?

Hell, in August of 2020, BEFORE the first ballot was cast, Trump proclaimed "the only way democrats can win is if they rig the election', which he still repeats, to this day.

ANd you think a few fleeting mentions (I only counted one) of 'peaceful and patriotic' is going to get Trump off the hook in a speech where Trump shouted 'fight' 20 times. A teaspoon of goodwill doesn't get a truckload of ill will off the hook. Did we not witness him, Mo Brooks, Giuliani, whip them up into a frenzy and send them off to the capitol, to 'fight like hell or they might lose their country'?

With all that rage building up like a volcano, what could possibly go wrong? Hmmmm?

As McConnell proclaimed, Trump is ultimately responsible for 1/6, and his day in court will come, and I'm pretty sure he will be convicted. We shall see but you really need to stop defending this man, he is not your friend.

 

McConnell may speak for you but certainly not for especially before he got all the facts. Had the proper authorities taken the proper security precautions as they were repeatedly urged to do so just such an occurance would not happen it wouldn't have. Those people are not your friend have have been feeding you a false narrative.

 

And the DP/RP Trump haters wonder why DJT's numbers go up with out ads.

“In the end, Stewart took a moment to remind other journalists that "we got a long ways to go here" when it comes to Trump taking the stand. “It’s the first day of the first of his 438 trials to come. Pace yourselves. And if you’re bored, you can always start planning how you’re going to be covering his next trial and the sober mea culpas you’ll deliver during his next term as president.”
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY, Jon Stewart skewers media over Trump trial coverage: 'What the f--- are we doing?' "It’s the first day of the first of [Trump’s] 438 trials to come. Pace yourselves.”, By Emlyn Travis Published on April 23, 2024 12:05PM EDT. (Emphasis mine)
https://ew.com/jon-stewart-skewers-media-trump-trial-coverage-8637471

 

“all the facts,” we had recounts, audits, and more recounts, certifications, not to mention sixty lawsuits, how long was the country going to have to wait for “all the facts?”

 

Wait for what? It's been four years what don't we know?

Still waiting without the contengecy votes having taken plaxe and recorded what would hace happened had a court ruled in Teump's favor and the election was fraudulent so the state legislature does what to sace the states votes?

Still witing it they were just fakes Trump was some how going to sneak in how was he going to do that and fake out the NA and Congress and the certified electors?

 

All the facts ABOUT THAT DAY JAN 6.

 

Doesn't negate my point.

A teaspoon of goodwill doesn't get a truckload of ill will off the hook.

It might get a carp off the hook, but not a whale off the harpoon.

Your blaming riots on containment management and not the riot initiators is like blaming a rape victim on the cop that didn't successfully stop the rapist.

Sorry, your argument doesn't wash.

 

So you don’t believe in due process ?

What a surprise .

 

How did you derive that from this

Wait for what? It's been four years what don't we know?

Still waiting, without the contingency votes having taken place and recorded what would hace happened had a court ruled in Trumps' favor and the election was fraudulent so the state legislature does what to save the states votes?

Still waiting it they were just fakes Trump was somehow going to sneak in how was he going to do that and fake out the NA and Congress and the certified electors?

 

What was your point in quoting McConnell before he had the facts of what actually occurred?

The Chief of the Capitol Hill police at the time blamed the riot on the lack of the proper security which he had requested FOUR TIMES, did you miss that? Sorry your denials don't wash. Had the additional security been there it wouldn't have happened.

 

I derive it from your apparent opposition to a trial. How about we let a judge and jury decide ?

 

The left will not be satisfied until we get to a place where all opposition to liberalism is criminalized.

 

Four years later that is due process? For simply protecting the EC votes of the state?

Again what don't we know? Explain how they were going to sneak their votes in without a court decision in their favor or an act of Congress.

 

And since breaking the law is now a requirement to be a Republican, the RNC voted that one AZ guy into a position.

 

No, they do not.

I've explained it
You just ignore it

They weren't trying to "sneak the votes in". They wanted Pence to treat the votes as authentic and then push to have the ACTUAL votes not counted...sent back to the states....or have the vote determined by the House.

 

Oh , I agree, they should have been prosecuted a while ago. Is there a statute of limitations on this crime the has been exceeded ? No ?

Why do I need to explain anything beyond what they charged ?

 

Yes they do

Nope and nothing to ingnore

Proving they were alternates, contingency and not "fake". Those were just two of the LEGAL THEORIES they were attempting but for anyone of them to have succeeded would have required a LEGAL ruling but a LEGAL authority and ONLY then would the alternate votes been used.

AGAIN had any of those challenges succeed and those contingency votes not been cast then there would have been no votes for that state. The only illegality would have been if the Trump campaign had kidnapped the certified electors and put disguises on the "fake" and they cast the votes in the names of the kidnapped ones and faked out the NARA into accepting them and fooled Congress into counting them.

 

That would be the best possible solution if the USA was not so notorious for rigging elections and political lawfare.

“The descent of American public life into a maelstrom of formal investigations, judicial hearings, court proceedings, criminal trials and civil lawsuits has been breathtaking. The Supreme Court, not the American people, made George W Bush president in 2000 when it rejected Al Gore’s contest of the election results in Florida. The #MeToo movement sparked countless charges of criminal conduct, which led to countless lawsuits. The so-called woke revolution has created a cycle of retribution and redress, which takes the form of a blizzard of investigations and terminations that often result in a storm of defamation lawsuits. Sophocles himself could not have invented a more dramatic irony when Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York who served as Trump’s lawyer during the 2020 presidential election, was indicted by a Georgia court using the same complex racketeering laws he employed to bring down the Mafia as a federal prosecutor in New York during the 1990s. Trump’s two impeachments while president, his efforts to use the courts to contest the results of the 2020 election, the legal pursuit of Hunter Biden, the present attempts to impeach President Biden, the four criminal indictments against Trump – though the Colorado ruling might seem a crowning national dysfunction, which it is, it also makes perfect sense.”
NEW STATESMAN, The lawfare state, A court’s barring of Trump from running for president is the culmination of America’s dysfunctional reliance on the legal system., By Lee Siegel, 20 December 2023.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/...2023/12/trump-colorado-decision-lawfare-state

Free and fair elections and fair jury trials are possible, but neither of the two dominant party establishments have ever had any sincere interest in justice or the democratic process.
OTOH, sympathy for the persecuted DJT, Giuliana et al is reduced by their failure to promote any real substantive reform when they had the power promote justice or representative democratic government.

 

I don't see McConnel's change of heart as not based on 'additional facts', but, like many republicans in the Senate who lack a spine claim, but in point of fact, their change of heart is a change based on expedience, putting party of above the country.

Moreover, nothing you have written supersedes this one overriding point; But for Donald Trump, there would be no 1/6. It was he, who, over a period of many months, inculcated, over and over and over again, into the hearts and minds of his followers, the falsehood that 'the only way Dems can win the election is if they rig it' and that started before the first ballot was ever cast, such that, after building that timebomb, a veritable juggernaut of rage, all he had to do was light the fuse on 1/6, and the fleeting mention of 'go peacefully' was wholly insufficient to put that fuse out. The juggernaut was set into motion with a tweet, “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!”, a veritable call to arms.

This is why he is under indictment, and rightfully so.

THe CoP indicates contributing factors, that's all, they are after the starting point, the chain of causality begins with Trump, who must be held accountable.

How you guys on the right cannot see this, my only explanation is that you are blinded by partisanship.

 

But for the election there would have been no Jan 6. Why do you assert Trump supporters had no right to protest? Why do you assert Trump had no right to speak that day? Trump has NEVER been charged with incitement or conspiracy and if Smith even had a sliver of a case to do so he would have. And these alternate electors had nothing to do with Jan 6.

 

Why weren't? Why was it held until the election?

 

I don't know. I am glad they are being held accountable for their actions and will have their day in court to explain, under oath.

 

Well that is the leftwing propagandist revision. The fact is the states selected Bush43 with it coming down to Florida where Bush won and then Gore tried to overturn the results in the circuit court and summarily lost. It was over then. But he convinced the Florida Supreme Court to inject itself where it had no jurisdiction to change election rules so he could overturn the results with his cherry picking vote divining scheme. Bush sued to stop the unconstitutional acts and the Supreme Court enjoined and asked the FSC to explain where it got the authority to do what it did. Instead on a split decision, the chief jistice writing in the decent, the FSC simply ordered the recounts restarted. The SCOTUS asked again where they got the authority and when the FSC could not explain they stayed the recounts again and the SecState certified the actual official count.

Had he SCOTUS not stopped the illegal and unconstitutional hand recounts the Florida Legislature was prepared to appoint alternate, OH MY FAKE, electors in order to protect the states EC votes.

 

It's not plainly obvious why? They have explained numerous times.

Still waiting for you to acknowledge the threat to AZ's votes had they not recorded those votes and fraud was declared in court or Congress and the Biden electors disqualified.

 

Why do I need to acknowledge something that never happened ? There never was any threat.