Hamas accepts Egypt deal. Netanyahu says NO.

That's generally how war works.

 

What about the THOUSANDS of hostages that Israel has taken? As of November there were over 7,000 sitting in Israeli prisons, the majority with no charges and no trial dates that had been there for months and years. Both sides need to release all hostages immediately, and commit to an end to the violence.

 

No it doesn't. But failing to understand what the war is all about and what happens in wars makes you unaware. Russia is literally targeting civilians in Ukraine but you don't seem to complain about that.

 

Congratulations on convincing Biden to hold up the delivery of precision bombs to Israel. I guess they'll have to use their non-precision munitions now. That's not something I'd want to take credit for.

 

I have been complaining about that. Our perpetuating that conflict is getting far too many civilians killed. I would prefer Russia had not invaded at all, but I prefer Ukraine to negotiate an end to the war rather than perpetuating it for years, killing far more civilians.

Both in Israel and Ukraine, our supplying weapons in perpetuity is turning both regions into a meatgrinder, all for the massive profits for the MIC and their investors, many of which are the politicians supporting the arms shipments.

 

the people who instigated the attack and murder of civilians should be treated as war criminals when Israel finally catches them

 

well they certainly aren't making the neo-nazis and virulent Jew Haters in the USA happy but I don't see that is losing

 

True, Quatar and Egypt should be stamping out that disease in their countries as well.

 

You dont' seem to be all that upset with Hamas for causing those deaths. Israel needs to totally eliminate Hamas as a viable enemy permanently.

 

According to Israeli channel 12 TV news Hamas did not accept cease fire proposals - Hamas changed the original cease fire proposal and than 'agreed'. Israel started the attack in order to force Hamas to agree to the original proposal.
Here is some info:
https://www.voanews.com/a/israel-says-hamas-has-changed-the-terms-of-a-ceasefire-deal-/7601654.html

As usual some PF members and major media title this event "Hamas accepts Egypt deal. Netanyahu says NO."

 

I have spoken out many, many times against Hamas, including talking to you I believe. The fact is, it is Israel slaughtering innocents right now, so that is who I am condemning. Hamas had one horrible day of terror. Israel has been doing that every day since to innocent Palestinians.

I don't give a flying **** what excuses each side gives to try and justify the slaughter of innocents. NOTHING justifies the killing of innocents. I don't care if there are multiple high level commanders present, if there are innocent civilians present, you don't drop a bomb.

If Hamas were still slaughtering hundreds of innocents every day, I'd be condemning them as well. But they are not. Yes I condemn them for the terror of October 7th. I condemn the IDF for every day since.

 

The Russian war is another topic. An invasion for purely political reasons to empower Putin enen more as he tries to re establish a former glory of Russia and gain territory.. Another man made atrocity on the planet.

 

Slaughtering innocents is the biased way of depicting what Israel has done. If the enemy is firing from a position and surrounding their position with non-combatants-the deaths of the noncombatants is upon those who use them as a shield. ISRAEL HAS NO DUTY to risk its soldiers by not eliminating threats because doing so might harm those who may or may not be supportive of Hamas.

 

Agree. BOTH parties are wrong. Both have to stop this ongoing cycle of violence ..........or live in perpetual war. and BIBI has other motives to perpetuate this violence. They are political and in the mean time masses are being killed. Not everyone in Gaza is a terrorist. But as long as this destruction takes place.....more terrorism will be created out of the rage that people feel. (and helplessness) Hamas was WRONG to attack.......and Israel is wrong to go into over kill. as a reaction. But it is keeping BIBI in power.

 

There has been no ceasefire in Gaza for 20 years.

Remember that the war waged by Israel on Gaza during that time has used methods of siege.

Gaza has been inside the wall created and maintained by Israel, blocking Gaza from travel, imports, exports(!), fishing rights, no seaports, no airports, no access to the fossil fuel riches believed to be within Gaza territory, etc. They have depended on aid trucks for food during that time - about 300 semis per day before October. More than half of Gaza has been food insecure.

Gaza has been run by Israel as an open air prison.

A siege IS considered a method of war. One can also talk about guns, fighter/bombers and rockets, but Israel is FAR, FAR ahead, as the US ensures Israel is endlessly supplied.

No people can accept living under those conditions imposed by Israel.


In the recent flareup, Israel has lost. They have slaughtered thousands upon thousands of people, but they have achieved NONE of their military objectives, anywhere in Gaza.

 

From early into this war, it became clear to me that the real focus of Israel's "military operations" was not to confront Hamas' organized military capabilities but instead to cut Gaza in half, starve the north, before proceeding to do the same in the south, all the while engaging in a campaign of aerial terrorism, murder and mayhem against the Palestinians in Gaza in order (among other even more sinister and genocidal delusions) to reclaim "deterrence" and exact vengeance.

That is a "theory" and, in a Popperian sense, a falsifiable one.

Based on that theory, I rejected early Israeli claims of controlling any significant inhabited parts of Gaza (e.g. north Gaza, then central Gaza) or claims that Hamas was dismantled or destroyed in those areas. Each time Israel made such claims, the facts showed what it was actually doing was exercising greater control to seal those areas from delivery of food and humanitarian aid. From my vantage point, especially if you use something similar to Occam's razor, that theory has been buttressed as opposed to refuted by subsequent facts. The final proof will come if/when a ceasefire takes hold to see if Hamas has been reduced to 3-4 brigades in Rafah as Israel has claimed? Or, alternatively, to see whether Hamas' military capabilities are substantially preserved, minus the rockets and ammunition it has expended in the course of the war? ((If this genocidal policy is allowed (it won't be allowed) to play out, based on my "theory", you will see massive/widespread starvation in Gaza before any "surrender" or "destruction" of Hamas)).

 

The problems aren't bomb type.

The problem is that Israel, our well known ally, is using starvation and slaughter against the civilians of Gaza.

Genocide is a serious crime. And, our contribution will not be forgotten.

 

One terrorist raid in the midst of Israel's 20 year war on Gaza does NOT justify genocide.

 

and there is no genocide so you can cool your jihadist jets

 

What is happening to civilians in Gaza is the result of and consequences for the constant state of war Hamas wages on Israel.

 

The biggest problem is collateral damage despite Israel doing more than any other nation in history to limit collateral damage. And by your account, you just helped take away a tool that was helping limit collateral damage. Now they will use less precise munitions and there will be more civilian deaths. Israel isn't going to give up just because you are holding back the safest munitions in their arsenal. Also, calling something "genocide" doesn't make it true. But if you truly wanted to prevent genocide you'd want them to use precision munitions. I find those statements against "genocide" hollow considering what you're celebrating. That's like saying you want Israeli infantry to run around with only bazookas and end all shipments of sniper rifles to end genocide... Cents it does not make.

 

These negotiations are not static like that. Hamas accepted a legitimate offer backed by multiple negotiation teams.

The more important part is that Israel refuses the idea that the ceasefire will have lasting effect.

Israel has demanded a temporary ceasefire, collects all their hostages, then they go back to slaughtering civilians in Gaza.

Why would Hamas accept that? Such a deal would offer absolutely NOTHING to Gaza.

The deal has to be permanent, with some level of guarantee concerning ongoing security for both Gaza and Israel.

But, if Netanyahu agrees to that, he will be out of office IMMEDIATELY, as his coalition government will fall apart.

He can't agree, because of his own personal welfare. He would no longer be their leader and would become susceptible to the many court actions that are held off only because he's in office.


Netanyahu's "NO" is not a principled stand for Israel. It is self preservation.
One has to read up on what Netanyahu faces.

 

You are forgetting that Israel has for 20 years waged constant war on Gaza.

And, that Israeli war on Gaza has been DEVESTATING to the people of Gaza.

Israel can NOT complain about Gaza shooting a few pathetic rockets back as their side of the war.

Gaza isn't causing Israel to starve. It isn't killing Israel's economy. It isn't preventing travel or imports or exports. And, the idea that it is an existential threat is just a sign of serious psychosis.

 

There hasn’t been a single act Hamas has committed against Israel that wasn’t a war crime

 

Israel has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prevent collateral damage.

In fact, that is ALL they are doing.

I'm not calling it genocide - the world is declaring it genocide - and even the USA is telling them not to do that.

Your last sentences proclaim a startling lack of understanding of what is happening.

To end the genocide, Israel needs to allow FOOD and WATER. And, they have to stop just shooting everybody they see.