Announcement: In-thread Moderator Warnings

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Dark Star, Jul 6, 2013.

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  1. Dark Star

    Dark Star Senior Admin Staff Member Donor

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    From time to time, when a thread begins to deteriorate, we'll issue a general warning within the thread to everyone to step back a bit and get back to belaboring the topic instead of one another. We call this a "thread warning." Trouble is, when we just post the thread warning in the middle of the thread, nobody sees it anymore because the conversation has already moved on to the next page. So we're basically just shouting into the darkness.

    We're going to do it a little differently from now on. Whenever we issue an in-thread warning, we're going to edit it right into the opening post of the thread, in red letters, and it will say "MOD EDIT... and then the specific warning, also in red letters so that it'll be tough for anyone to miss. Then, we'll edit into the title of the thread an announcement that there's a thread warning in the OP (opening post). It'll look something like this "MOD ALERT".

    When you see the words "MOD ALERT" in the title of a thread, please read the OP of the thread before posting. From the point where the warning is time-stamped into the OP, everyone in the thread will be responsible for knowing what was in the warning, and abiding by it. After that edit is made, you own whatever you say. In most cases, that will be considered a final warning to everyone in the thread, and there will usually be no more warnings issued. We don't want to be jerks about this, but in many cases this is our last realistic option for keeping the thread open. We'd much rather find ways to get people to dial back the rhetoric and get back on topic than come in later and give half a dozen people infractions. Thanks for your cooperation!
     
  2. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm a fan.
     
  3. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Makes absolutely no sense whatever.Even by yer own golden thread rules where
    Threads can be Modified and shut down.
    Why the sudden change of PF policy concerning threads.Was there outside pressure
    exerted to make certain posters KNOW " You own whatever you say ".
    That sounds like some kind of veiled threat.That posters somehow need to fear
    what they post as if there may be ulterior consequences.
    Knowing how we have definitive proof that ALL phone calls are recorded
    and almost ALL computer internet traffic is being monitored by Big Brother,
    I find it completely satisfying to know that this Forum is not exempt from such
    Unamerican activity.
    Where is the John Birch Society when need calls.
     
  4. JohnnyMo

    JohnnyMo Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Excellent plan
     
  5. Angrytaxpayer

    Angrytaxpayer Banned

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    Getting a little sick of the mass Zimmerman posts. They all turn into flame fests. They should be banned.
     
  6. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    Much better then letting the trolls spam and get a thread shut down. I like it great move mods.
     
  7. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not advocating by any stretch the use of Flaming.
    But we do have in this country a First Amendment Right of Free Speech.
    That means that Bill Maher actually has the right to utter the " C " word when
    referring to Sarah Palin.Or Ed Schultz calling Conservative talk Radio host
    Laura Ingraham " a right-wing Slut " on his Radio program.
    Even President Obama who regularly Dissed Mitt Romney on the runup to his
    Presidential Election.Relying more on his Lapdog media to do his *Flaming.
    However Obama did use the term " **********s " in an interview.
    Also finds it completely apropos to remain in constant campaign mode,even after
    his November win,basically condemning the House Republicans and the Tea Party.
    If you find it so bothersome to have displayed this Right of Free Speech,
    then maybe you live in the wrong country.There are vast number of countries who can
    easily abide yer wishes of mass this or mass that.
    Like once upon a time in Germany.Mass transit straight to the concentration camps.
    Where near naked prisoners hadn't the strength to talk let alone get too excited over
    current events.


    * doesn't git any more Flaming than the Michael Moore Ad { MoveOn.org} attacking
    Mitt Romney,last summer where a Retirement home of seniors are shown
    in a video cussing out presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
    Using sexual profanity and threatening violence against the former governor.
    The Ad was run to support the - turn out the vote for Barack Obama -.
    I don't recall the President of the United States or even Stephanie Cutter
    calling for the Banning of that Video.In fact,they did the opposite.They acted
    clueless.Like some game.
     
  8. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    my opinion is moot

    we all post here of our free will. If we don't like the rules then we can stop posting.
     
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  9. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For rules,any rules to merit respect they must first be established in a fair manner
    across the board and then applied evenly.Rules should never be changed or
    tweeked in the middle of a game.Changing rules often and indiscriminately is
    how banana republics operate.
     
  10. Riot

    Riot New Member

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    I like ice scream
     
  11. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    and in a free society we must respect the right of the person who "owns the ball" to go home with it any time they wish. They in turn must also respect our right to walk away from the game whenever we wish. This is not like paying to see a movie and the manager turns on the lights just as the film begins, sends everyone home without a refund. There is no "implied contract" between posters and the site.

    I again will not express my opinion about the new rule or the subjective manner in which it will be applied. My opinion is irrelevant.

    The mods can delete every other word I post if they so wish, and I can choose to remain posting or go elsewhere.
     
  12. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I get it now.
    Kinda like Orwell's - Animal Farm - 1945
    Where it goes " All the animals are EQUAL. Then All the animals work,but
    the workhorse,Boxer does more than others.Till the maxim ...
    Napoleon is always right.
     
  13. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, we do have free speech in this country. But I hope we are also adults and would know how to express ourselves without stooping to trash talk, like a bunch of young hoods. It would also seem that no matter what the subject is, it always turns political, even if politics has nothing to do with it. We have been become so Party loyal, that everything is the other Parties fault.

    I love discussing issues. But it would seem that the issues aren't important on these boards. It's how can we blame the opposition no matter what the subject is. I expect that out of a bunch of juveniles, not from adults. So yes, we do have free speech in this country. But we also have a duty to act like adults. Calling a person you don't agree with a slut is something I would expect from a 16 year old punk, not a grown adult that can't seem to express himself any other way than a juvenile that hasn't been taught any manners.
     
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  14. Lowden Clear

    Lowden Clear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see no need for special warnings when the rules of the forum are already clear. It seems to me there is fear from the mods about issuing citations on an individual basis. What is the matter with slapping down the ones who don't meet forum rules? Why treat them as groups to be managed?

    There is no need to shut down threads because of a few bad apples. Just shut down the bad apples and eventually they will learn there is a firm hand at the helm.

    I realize that the mods often see the forum as a bunch of kids whining and that they must parent some of them. But a good parent doesn't add to the amount of warnings, they limit the amount of warnings by enforcing the rules at hand. It certainly does change behavior. It will become more civil in just a few days if given a firm hand.
     
  15. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolardi View Post

    I'm not advocating by any stretch the use of Flaming.
    But we do have in this country a First Amendment Right of Free Speech.
    That means that Bill Maher actually has the right to utter the " C " word when
    referring to Sarah Palin.Or Ed Schultz calling Conservative talk Radio host
    Laura Ingraham " a right-wing Slut " on his Radio program.

    Even President Obama who regularly Dissed Mitt Romney on the

    Yes, no putting these Liberals down for being vulgar, but look how they crucified one woman for using the N word 20 years ago when a Black put a gun to her head when robbing the bank. Funny how we have two sets of rules for conduct.
     
  16. Dark Star

    Dark Star Senior Admin Staff Member Donor

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    In fact, the Zimmerman threads spawned this, although I've been thinking about something similar for some time now. The daily Zimartin Wars were the catalyst.

    It's a fine line we're walking with that topic. It's a major news story, very relevant, and exactly the sort of thing people ought to be able to discuss here. That's what we're here for, issues like that. And I probably learn a lot more from reading these threads than I do from watching the news, which confirms to me that it's important to keep them viable.

    But on the other hand, yes - they're a nightmare to moderate, because it's a very emotional issue about which many people are extraordinarily passionate. We can really use one fulltime moderator to do nothing but watch those threads sometimes. It brings out the worst in a lot of people, and frankly, I can't wait until the trial is over. But in the meantime, we're just going to have to endure the threads, but we will do everything we can to make them less toxic.
     
  17. Dark Star

    Dark Star Senior Admin Staff Member Donor

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    I agree; there should be no need to keep reminding adults to act like... you know... adults. But unfortunately, we have a lot of people here who don't really care very much about the rules. That's going to be changing rather dramatically over the next couple of weeks, but I can't really tell you how at this time. Just watch this space for further announcements later this week. By the end of the month, I suspect you won't feel the same way.

    But even as we go forward with some new tools in the box, thread warnings and thread bans will still be something we use a lot. Thread warnings can be a valuable reality check, a blunt reminder that things are going too far and everyone needs to take a step back and start over. For those who choose not to comply, the next step is a thread ban, where they are prevented from posting anymore in that thread, and possibly subject to additional infractions as well.

    It isn't that the moderators are afraid to issue infractions, it's just the amount of time it takes. Cleaning up one thread can take as long as two hours sometimes, because you often have to go through every single post for as many as 40 pages. It's not that they're afraid to do it; it's just that they don't have the time. But we're about to make things a lot easier and a lot more efficient for them. The wind is blowing from a different direction, and those who haven't quite felt it yet won't be able to miss it much longer.

    Oh, and no, I don't think any of our current moderators see the posters as a room full of whining kids. I certainly don't, and if any of the staff were to feel that way, we would have a fundamental philosophical difference. My view is that the vast majority of the members are reasonable, mature adults, decent human beings, and we are here to do whatever we need to do assist them in having civil, respectful discussions. If the moderators have sometimes seemed ineffective, it's partly because they haven't had a very efficient set of rules to work with, and - if the truth were told - they haven't gotten the support they deserved from me. Neither of those things is going to be true any longer. I think you're going to like this month better than last month.
     
  18. Lowden Clear

    Lowden Clear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Winter Bear, that was a solid reply. Thank you. Glad to hear about your philosophy on the matter. I look forward to a better PF. To better times!
     
  19. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    Well the issue of freedom of communication on the internet goes a little beyond what you are addressing.....in our early days our founding fathers realized how important freedom of the press was...I say in these latter times freedom of communication on the internet is just as vital...our political leadership needs to address censorship on the internet...and this only argument well it is private property...they have a right to censor whatever they please....that is the law now but it needs to be changed.
     
  20. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    I agree and their policy of moving threads around is often misused...aka placing a thread some mod does not like on one of the forums in the back pages.

    There needs to be a forum for such topics as we are addressing here...there needs to be an opportunity for posters to confront the management of the board with objections, suggestions and just a general give and take between the management and the posters.
     
  21. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Two points here, because I generally never lack for an opinion on anything.

    The first is for those who are against this, perhaps we should simply wait and see how it works before attacking the efficacy of it? Certainly with no data to support an opinion either way, reserving judgment may be well advised.

    Second, it is a privately owned forum and the powers that be can do as they please. This is not an issue of "free speech".
     
  22. JohnnyMo

    JohnnyMo Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    This really isn't the place to express your dislikes of the mods or rules.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/announcements-community-discussions/
     
  23. Yosh Shmenge

    Yosh Shmenge New Member

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    My simple modest request is that if I report a violation, as I sometimes do now because I feel rules are being selectively enforced, that I at least get the courtesy of acknowledgment from the mods, instead of nothing 99% of the time.
     
  24. Dark Star

    Dark Star Senior Admin Staff Member Donor

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    That's a solid point, and something I want to talk to the mods about too. I don't know quite how we would be able to do it as a matter of course, because to discuss the matter in any detail puts us in the position of discussing whether we infracted another member, which we have a very strict policy against. Personally, I often feel badly when someone reports a post, and for whatever reason I decide it's not actionable, but I'm not even able to tell them why. They took the trouble to report it, to try to help us make the community a little better place, and I'm not even really able to discuss it with them. I really feel badly about that.


    But certainly, some sort of acknowledgment is not unreasonable. I'm just not sure how we'd do it. We'll kick it around in the Staff forum, though, and see if anyone comes up with some ideas. Thank you, Yosh. We really need to look at this one, I think.
     
  25. Yosh Shmenge

    Yosh Shmenge New Member

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    Thank you. Acknowledgment is a basic courtesy.
     
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