Are there logical fallacies in Christianity?

Discussion in 'Debates & Contests' started by usfan, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

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    1 Corinthians 13:4) Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up,

    5) does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury.

    6) It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.

    7) It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    Na 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

    Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

    1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    KJV
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2020
  2. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much everything you pontificated as false is TRUE.
    See I can pontificate just like you!
     
  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Who cares? God can do what he wants even if he requires something entirely different from humans. God is in no way bound by flawed humans concepts of morality.
     
  4. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you establish any of what you just said? Can you even provide evidence for the existence of God, let alone for these qualities you attribute to it?

    Seems to me that God is simply whatever you want it to be. Same for all other theists.
     
  5. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The Bible. It has more historical legitimacy than countless history records that we accept as factual today. Such as Julius Caesar's accounts of his military campaigns.
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The book that claims the earth formed in six days and after the sun and moon, that the entire world was covered in a flood, that every kind of animal was packed onto a large wooden ship during said flood and actually fit and survived the ordeal, claims that the Jews left Egypt through a magically created dry path through the Red Sea and then spent forty years wandering around the Sinai Peninsula before settling in Palestine, and claims that a man was conceived parthenogenetically, had superpowers, was killed by crucifixion and then magically brought back to life before magically floating away into the sky "has more historical legitimacy than countless history records," huh?

    Very convincing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  7. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The end of the Bible is written symbolically, why wouldn't the first of the Bible also be written symbolically? There is a nice symmetry to that idea.

    And I'll note that more than one science textbook has symbolic illustrations in them that are in no way indicative of actual facts regarding the universe. The relative sizes of planets and the distances between them for example. The relative sizes of subatomic particles and the distances between them as another example.
     
  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, there is no indication that the stories in Genesis are symbolic, but I can see why you would assume they are since they are clearly incorrect as written, and we can't very well have the bible be wrong about something now, can we?
     
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Another possibility, just to point out the logically obvious, even if the creation story at the very beginning of the Bible were not true, that would not necessarily, or even likely, imply that the rest of the Bible was not true.
    (Although it would call several things into question)
    The creation story simply does not have the same quality, and is from a far earlier time period, then the rest of the stories are.

    Assuming one would automatically imply the other is a very simple-minded thinking.

    This might not be obvious to many normal people, but it should be to any scholar familiar with the books and history in them.

    Maybe to put it in words you can be better understand, Durandal, proving that the Creation story never actually happened that way, and proving that the Flood never happened, is not proof that Jesus never came to the Earth and performed miracles.
    Sorry to disappoint you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This has actually been brought up in other threads here before. There are two issues here.
    First, the issue of "jealous" likely has to do with two different words with subtly different meaning that were translated into English as the same word.

    Second, if you were much more familiar with the actual theology, you would realize you are taking things out of context, and not considering the proper role of human individuals versus God.

    To actually understand if there is indeed a contradiction there, you would have to much better understand the actual issue being discussed, which you most likely do not.


    I also hate this forum because it automatically deleted a long segment of what I wrote, and it is too complicated for me to explain why it did that. (I wrote something about seeming apparent paradoxes in other texts in other religions that are not actually paradoxes because they are discussing different aspects or different situations of the same thing)
    In fact, giving you a fully adequate answer would be too complicated to do here, and it is not worthwhile for me to put in the effort to do that for you here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, so assuming he (truly) repented before he died, the Catholic view would be that he would not go to Hell, but they do believe he would go to Purgatory for a long time.

    (Obviously not being ex-communicated is irrelevant here)

    However, up comes another separate interesting theological point here, because presumably he died by suicide, and the official Catholic teaching has traditionally not taken a very nice view of suicide. Making your question complicated in a way you were not anticipating.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He was funding research into the occult (you can read about the stuff that went on at Wewelsburg castle), and promoting traditional pagan concepts, probably not something an actual christian would be doing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  13. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Religion is the search for transcendental truth.
    Logic has no place in that pursuit.
    That is why unorthodoxy is always punished.
    It is written is always good enough.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  14. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Active Member

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    Catholics baptize babies, so it's not like Hitler just turned up in church and asked to be baptized, as a Baptist would have to do as an adolescent or adult, so his 'baptism' isn't a real point, it's just an irrelevancy.
     
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  15. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    You are what they call in my business sociopath. You illustrate narcissistic nd paranoid delusional thoughts.


    Your statements above clearly present you as a divine and absolute source that can not be challenged and more importantly does not need to prove his divine essence.

    Why would anyone allow themselves to be manipulated by you in such a clumsy attempt to proseltyze them?

    Why would you think anyone must disprove anything you can't prove? Why do you think you can put yourself 7p 9n a throne, claim you are an infallible, divine source then try manipulated people into playing Satan for you? You own Satan the moment you professed your values. Thanks but I am not here to feed your delusions. You want to define truth as absolute as nd based on people sharing hour delusions save it. I spent most 9f my lifdcditting across the table from sociopaths. Oh I dig the game only you ain't telling me the rules Charlie. You saved the make out sessions for somd confused kid. Snakes don't scare me, nor do their tongues or fangs.

    Dig t his Charlie, the more you rattle, the greater my distance. Eventually Charlie you get eaten making all that noise.

    Vultures get the last word Charlie, not you. Lol.
     
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  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Closest thing to divine on this planet is the vulture. Check out its digestive system
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  17. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Sorr for the typos earlier Charlie. My computer is amazing out today. I am trying to be allegorical. Youare what they call in my business a sociopath. I do not mean that as an insult. ..but for me, you illustrate manipulative, narcissistic and paranoid delusional thoughts. You sound to me like Charlie Manson.

    For me your statements presented you as a divine and absolute source that can not be challenged and more importantly does not need to prove his divine essence.

    Why would anyone allow themselves to be manipulated by you in such a clumsy attempt to proseltyze them? Lol. Come on.

    Why would you think anyone must disprove anything you can't prove?

    Why do you think you can put yourself on a throne, claim you are an infallible, divine source and then try manipulated people into playing Satan for you?

    You bdxame Satan so to speak the moment you professed your values. Thanks but I am not here to feed your delusions.

    You want to define truth as absolute and based on people sharing your delusions save it. I spent most of my life sitting across the table from sociopaths truing to figure out who they molest next.

    Oh I dig the game only you ain't telling me the rules Charlie. You save the make out sessions (debate) for some confused kid. Snakes don't scare me, nor do their tongues or fangs.

    Dig this Charlie, the more you rattle, the greater my distance. Eventually Charlie you get eaten making all that noise. Usually by another inmate.

    Vultures get the last word Charlie, not you or me. Lol.[/QUOTE]
     
  18. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    This thread ran its course a year ago.. i bowed out, as the original debate diffused into routine thread bickering. You seem to want to stir up the lame 'Atheists vs Christians!', flame war, with the bigoted attacks, and trolling for a reaction.

    I stated clearly, in the OP, what this thread was for. If anyone wants to revive an actual, factual, evidentiary based debate, i would participate. But hysterical flame wars, that only provoke bigotry and lies, are of no interest to me.
     
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  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I did not know it ended. My fault. I am not up to date on some threads. Hysterical flame wars? Ok got it. You ask for factual, evidentiary based debate? You started the debate saying you don't and won't rely on facts or evidence just your own subjective values. I found that interesting you in th e very first sentence of your thread contradicted yourself and asked people to do the very thing you refused to do. I found that classic sociopathological posturing. I had no intent to inflame just point out you expect from others a standard you will not follow yourself. I do agree though from the sounds of your responses it was a waste of time to debate you. Your entire premises was to reject debate before it even started. Got it.
     
  20. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely correct.
     
  21. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Got it. Hee hee hah hah you got me.
     
  22. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Here's some more fun and do excuse me I was tracking someone who was on this forum to see when he changed his name.
    Peekaboo I see you. Charlie. Whatever.

    https://lovefraud.com/sociopaths-pretending-to-be-religious/

    https://scholar.utc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1243&context=mps

    https://virtueonline.org/how-handle-religious-sociopath

    ....and my favourite ...this one written by a sociopath to call others sociopaths, its fun:

    http://www.wickedshepherds.com/AReligiousSociopath.html

    Sociopathic behaviour is detectable. It can take some time, and it escapes detection unless you are specifically looking for it and know what to look for. There is no one size fits all diagnosis. It is often like trying to hold on to jello-a true soicopath squeezes out of so many attempts to grasp them and their symptoms which can be almost identical to other psychiatric conditions.

    Some people like to call such people monsters, demons, Satan-those are romantic names. It gives the phenomena subjective values to make them easier to fear.

    You sit across from one and get into their head, its just a junk yard full of clutter, junk. Nothing mystical, nothing complicated-just rigid structures and divisions of junk-the sociopath is a hoarder of negative postulations is all...the postulation is meaningless...its literal words mean nothing-its the physical responses attached to the words that are what requires predicting and containing.

    Its not the words, but the actions the words may or may not predict is coming. A sociopath simply speaks words. Their actual meaning and context changes instantly depending on their next move that needs to control you, control your feelings and reactions.

    The sociopath wants to control you or kill you-if you have no purpose, i.e., if he can't do either, he or she moves on.

    I have known quite a few in my day. They love to mock religion and quote religion and they love to play victim of society but everyone is unique like a snowflake. You can profile serial killers to an extent but not all serial killers are sociopaths and not all people with anti-social personality disorders are sociopaths.

    For all intents and purposes today no one in the business calls anyone a psychopath anymore. Its been over-used. We don't even use words like neurosis or psychosis anymore.

    Sociopaths run every range of emotion but its parroted back.

    When stripping layers of sociopaths you can get to underneath layers to find out they hate their mother, father, were sexually abused, other things, but those things mean very little. The sociopath has never been connected to these supposed features that they want you to believe cause them to have done what they did. They are just buzz words to dettract you.

    One sociopath I interviewed who killed both his parents had zero feelings. Absolutely none. The murders were caused by boredom. It wasn't deeper then that. Boredom. The parents were in the wrong place at the wrong time. A true sociopath may have their own on and off switch, sometimes it can be triggered but most sociopaths are intelligent and they don't have any deep thoughts-just surface analytical ones based on very matter of fact logical thinking. There's no emotion to cloud them. They have no emotions to anchor their thoughts. There is no up, down, right, wrong, beginning, ending. They just exist in the moment and feel no limitations to the consequence or possibilities of their thoughts.

    By the way a sociopath can often be found to be missing specific chromosome or specific anomalies to neurological structure in specific parts of their brain. Their condition can be inherited genetically or acquired by brain injury, virus, tumour, drug use or chemical imbalances. There is a boring explanation for it. Its usually not some paranormal demon but a neurological defect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020

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