Howdy, So, Bitcoin - what do you think about it? What's the hype about? Is it a Ponzi scheme, a stock bubble, the AI (Artificial Intelligence) currency, a globalist scam or what? Where do you see this going? Is it going to crash in flames? Or perhaps the opposite? To illustrate the topic, Tesla begins accepting bitcoin for its cars
Bitcoin is the natural progression of currency combined with a generation who grew up with video games where you can create money out of thin air. That's essentially what "mining" is. Of course, mining your fake money can't happen without other people contributing real money to give your fake money some value, but that's beside the point. It'll keep working as long as there are enough shmucks(or more likely, enough people engaged in criminal behavior who need the anonymity of crypto currencies) to keep converting real money into video game money.
It is more than just video game money or money used for criminal behavior. That is how it all started, but as time goes by it is seen as more and more valid.
If you think banks don't create money out of thin air... think again. Well, it's essentially a bubble. With only 21 million Bitcoins that can potentially be created, it's a bubble and I don't envy the last one to stand when "the music stops".
True. it is. I do not have a lot in it, but it would have to crash hard for me to actually lose any money
At some point, the all-powerful central banks of 'the West', like the European Central Bank, the Federal Reserve System, the Bank of England, et al, will either take over control of 'make-believe' digital 'currencies' like Bitcoin, or, they'll destroy them. These central banks will not tolerate any perceived threat to their total chokehold on the currencies or commodities markets of 'the West'. Curiously enough, the governments of only two major-league nations in the world tell these conniving, internationalist central bankers in their own countries 'how it's going to be', instead of the other way around -- the Russian Federation, and, China. Things may change, but as it is, give me 'cash-stuffed-in-a-mattress' rather than a Bitcoin any day!
I see Bitcoin and it's fellow travelers as currency that serves two markets - the illegal transaction market, and the speculative investment market. A bit coin is worthless if you can't find a buyer, so it is subject to gaming due to market shocks and rumors. It's only a matter of time until someone hacks it, or claims to have hacked it, and it collapses like a cheap tent. You are truly buying a "unit of trust" with no one to pick up the phone.
Bitcoin is a $1 trillion dollar market, it is digital cash and other than for speculation, people buy it because a) the government can't ban it b) unlike gold or cash, you can keep large amounts of money by simply memorising 12 words which makes cross border transfers a breeze c) there will only ever be 21 million, which makes it scarce...like gold d) it's the future of finance, along with the decentralised finance industry which basically encompass much of the other cryptocurrencies Nigeria tried to ban bitcoin and it traded for a US$25000 premium on peer to peer networks a day or so later. If the US ban bitcoin the rest of the world will still use it AND the US will lose the stable coin market that goes with bitcoin. Tether and USD Coin (there are also others) but these markets are worth approx 60 billion and growing. A stable coin like Tether and USDC are pegged to the US dollar and exchanges must keep one dollar for every stable coin, I believe Tether were recently audited. The reality is if the US ban bitcoin, they lose the stablecoin market to likely the Digital Yuan in Asia, I think it will then move to regional currencies, like the Euro in Europe and the Ruble in eastern Europe, unsure the Middle East...could be a variety. Powel is right to some extent when he says bitcoin is not a threat to the dollar because everyday purchases will not be done in bitcoin, and it feeds the stablecoin market..tied to the US$...however the minute they ban bitcoin it actually becomes a much greater threat...the US$ will be fighting for relevancy in the future. Therefore it would actually be in other countries' best interests if the US do ban bitcoin. More likely they will hike taxes for it, milk it like a cow, but will get fierce opposition if they tax it more than other assets....if it is singled out and treated differently.
I don't own any BitCoin yet but........ I do believe that it has enormous potential so...... I went with "A new global currency"....... I made that decision based partly on an ancient Islamic prediction that I quoted in post number one on a discussion on where I think that the Abraham Peace Accords could lead in the near future....... After the Abraham Peace Accord turn deserts green...
Wow!!!!!!! Scarlet Witch....... if the nation of Israel were to crown President Donald J. Trump as "Moshiach ben Ephrayim / Messiah son of Joseph / Yosef" would any variation of an alternative currency unit in his name......... potentially be capable of being somewhat like BitCoin? Should Israel crown Donald J. Trump as Moshiach ben Ephrayim?
This guy is in agreement with Canell that banks do create money out of thin air! This is former Canadian Minister of Defence Mr. Paul Hellyer...... he is like ninety years old now but the man is brilliant....... and fearless! End tax and financial slavery now with Paul Hellyer (!ThatChannel.com 2013-03m-12)
If there ever was "money" created out of "thin air" it is Bitcoin. It has no physicality backing it up.
It is the federal reserve that does and it is base on the full faith and credit of the US and the US economy creating wealth. Now me I would prefer gold but it IS based on a certain wealth. I still haven't figured out what Bitcoin is based on and since AFAIK I have to use some government issued currency to buy it............
Bitcoin is based on nothing just like the U.S. dollar. The difference is that the supply of bitcoin can't be enlarged. The total number of bitcoins is fixed permanently. There can be no inflation. The U.S. dollar has lost 95% of its value over my lifetime. Bitcoin has increased in value since its creation. Personally I wouldn't give a plug nickel for the "full faith and credit of the U.S." It has proven to be faithless. By the way, it is the treasury department that decides to increase the money supply. The federal reserve is just the mechanism to do that. The process is uncontrolled and corrupt. Both Bitcoin and the U.S. dollar have their value based on faith. Currently people have more faith in the dollar. I doubt that will last all that much longer now that there is an alternative.
The dollar is based on the full faith and credit of the United States and it's ability to tax economic output, a thing of value. Now that being said that ain't gold or silver. Yes it's on paper but like you getting a loan based on your ability to earn money and repay the loan. I don't see what "faith" there is in Bitcoin. Isn't it ultimately tied to the dollar as you buy Bitcoins with dollars, or another foreign currency, and ultimately it's going to be exchanged back? And back at least for now, will you be able to buy a car or a house or go down to Publix and grocery shop in Bitcoins? Will the government eventually step it as they are the only ones allowed to create and control the currency. Go back in history I believe it was the Romans and the Greeks were coining official money because there were so many forms of money in it made commerce more difficult as it expanded and then of course fake private currencies. As I said I don't know a lot about Bitcoin to me it seems like a created "commodity" and if I was going to invest in a commodity it would be gold or silver something tangible. I did gold back in the late 1970's and made a great return when the price was skyrocketing although I got churned by the broker being a naieve 20 year old investor and could have made about 25% more but learned a valuable lesson about brokers . Have done so since.
and Fiat has what...the Fed backing it up with less than thin air...astronomical levels of debt, as far as thin air goes fiat is in the negative....by trillions gee I hate my bitcoin 700% profit in less than a year is just terrible suck eggs haters
Luckily for you, Elon Musk and others like him who are now richer than some entire nations, courtesy of a dysfunctional economic system that has produced stratospheric levels of wealth inequality alongside entrenched poverty...these people can keep pumping-up Bitcoin's price (while interest rates are near zero), on the misguided assumption that governments will tolerate Bitcoin's unregulated existence forever. Of course, fiat has the backing of a nation's resources and productivity, unlike Bitcoin which is the ultimate ponzi scheme. I wonder how much Musk is prepared to lose...or indeed, how much small players are prepared to lose, when the big boys can 'pump and dump, at will?
Actually fiat money is not backed by a nation's resources and productivity. It is backed by its government which is an even larger ponzi scheme. So you can have a currency that is based on thin air that government can manipulate, or you can have another one based on thin air that the government can't touch. Over my lifetime the dollar has lost 95% of its value. that is caused by government creating money out of thin air thereby diluting the value of existing money. We call it inflation. That can't happen with digital money because the amount of the "coins" is fixed. It can't be expanded. As the economy grows, the value of the coins increases and declines during periods of poor economic performance. The dollar, on the other hand decreases in value regularly regardless of the performance of the economy. Why does government create money out of thin air? Two reasons. The first is that it gives them more money to spend and the second is that it allows any debt to be repaid in lower value currency. The loser in all of this is the citizen, whose money declines in value. The value of currency is a matter of faith. If you have faith in government then stick with the dollar. I don't have faith in any currency but I understand the lower appeal of government issued currency.
Governments are going to have to tolerate it, because if they ban it they simply put a premium on it...make it more valuable. Like I've said before, it's like banning water during a drought....for some self preservation takes higher priority than a corrupt government whose only interest is to steal from the people. Without sufficient levels of oil clearly we won't be able to pay back the astronomical global debt, which means the government you cheerlead for is bankrupt....this means fiat is backed by a bankrupt institution whilst resources are running low and productivity is dropping like a rock. On top of this they are debasing fiat while inflation is skyrocketing. Bitcoin btw is a hedge against currency debasement and inflation, bankrupt bankers stealing your money and governments confiscating your wealth, and THIS is why people like Elon Musk is buying it and will continue to buy it.
Note my underlined. link Why Governments Are Afraid of Bitcoin (investopedia.com) "So what does the future hold for Bitcoin and other virtual currencies? It is safe to say that they are here to stay. You can use the virtual currency to make purchases in a wide variety of video games and at some retailers like overstock.com and tigerdirect.com. You can also use bitcoin to safely purchase gift cards for hundreds of business like Home Depot, Dunkin Donuts, and AMC Theatres. However, the Bitcoin website notes that “Bitcoin is not a fiat currency with legal tender status in any jurisdiction.”1 And based on the regulatory and enforcement actions of major governments, including the United States and Russia, that status is unlikely to change anytime soon. [/QUOTE] So "investment" in Bitcoin is still a ponzi scheme, even if you can buy gift-cards and video games with it. Clearly you have learned nothing from the MMT debate....because you are committed to your explosive gains with Bitcoin ponzi (That's how the human brain works; self-interest determines one's ideology). Good points.... in as far as Musk has no understanding of fiat currencies.....AND except that inflation has been dead for decades and central banks have been desperately trying - and failing - to get it back into the 2-3% range ever since the GFC (or in Japan's case, ever since the property bubble there burst in 1989). BUT...... China's rapid development is forcing the US to look at the real basis of a nation's productivity, which is technological advance via R&D. (and partly, in China's case, via transfer of technology via globalization; but China has now been forced to develop its own R&D, as a result of US paranoia about loss of global hegemony to China. The next 10 years will be very 'interesting' indeed, as China's economy finally surpasses the US). Hence Biden wants to spend $6 trillion.......funded by reversing some of the massive transfer of money wealth to the top 1% which has occurred since erroneous macro policies introduced by Reagan and Thatcher. But Biden and the world will discover MMT by necessity, as climate change and global pandemics force a rethink about central bank operations, and allocation of resources by free markets alone becomes increasingly untenable if we are to avoid the planet's ecological collapse. IOW, global debt is not the problem, irresponsible employment of the planet's resources IS the problem. But like I said, you have your Bitcoin dream to pursue, so none of the above will command your attention.....
ANY legal money is created out of thin air by government, regardless of the type of government (communist, capitalist, or calathumpian or whether the money is convertible to Gold (the gold standard, now obsolete because there is not enough gold in the world to encompass global trade). Addressed above. A nation with a productive economy will have a valuable fiat currency. Which is what Biden is now being forced to face up to, in the face of China's rise. No that's the debunked quantity theory of money. In fact if a nation's productivity increases, the quantity of money can be increased without inflation occurring. Which means the US must revert to productive capitalism rather than financial capitalism, as Biden has discovered if he wants to maintain US global hegemony. [He can't, because China has discovered the key to productivity and economic development...] The very FIRST reason is: a nation's legal currency can't exist until the government's treasury and central bank spend it into existence. As for inflation, that is normally managed in our dysfunctional neoliberal economies via a level of unemployment (see NAIRU); but indeed the present crop of mainstream economists including even the IMF are now urging governments to deficit spend in order to avoid post pandemic global economic stagnation. But the IMF are still wedded to the mainstream government-debt and deficit delusion...and simultaneously want governments to return to balanced budgets, despite wanting them to deficit spend.....the definition of confusion; explained in Stephanie Kelton's bestseller "The Deficit Myth".
