Brazil's right wing government moves to attack indigenous constitutional rights

So when the Spanish rip babies from their mothers breast and dash their brains out on rocks as documented by both Las Casas and Sepulveda, it's okay but when the Incas practice human sacrifice it is uncivilized, right?

And you still have not answered why being suppisedly more "civilized" means you get to attack other people, murdering them and stealing their gold and land.

You stated that this is some kind of moral law.

Says who and by what authority?

 

You see, if I call this "idiocy", then "Foul", the mentors will reprimand; so, instead, I'll just point out the absurdity: aborting a fetus, a potential child, is morally inferior to the mass murder of actual living children, and in the name of a mystical delusion. You're equating ending a pregnancy with bashing the brains in of children by a witch doctor. Furthermore, you are equating a barbaric, primitive, superstitious tribe of psychopaths to a doctor earning a living by performing a voluntarily chosen safe procedure to enhance the well being of a woman. Well, I can't think of anything less vile than that--the condemnation of the good in praise of pure evil.

See, that's what give the Religious Right a bad name--they can't differentiate between the "not" and the "is".

 

I'm no fan of Spain,(the Inquisition, just to mention one thing) nor Sparta, nor for infanticide by anybody for any reason. Western Civilization didn't create infanticide, it inherited it from the tribalists of their time, including the bloodthirsty Incas, Mayans, and Aztecs. ...and its been doing a damn good job of ending this type of horrid nonsense; that is until the Islamists became the Progressive's new mistreated minority---mutilating female genitalia to please Allah and to keep the girls pure from earthly pleasures, talk about your sadistic psychos.

 

Well, I obviously overestimated your level of education and cognitive abilities. For someone who confuses most countries, characters or countries mention with something to eat, it might appear weird. Sorry for that, I wont respond to your comments again, as long as the topic is more complex than your favourite colour or sweet little kitten.

 

Ad hom deflection.

Yes, if you cannot address the issue in grown up words, it is probably best you
don't respond and leave the discussion to people with something relevant to say.

 

What you do is spamming as you are neither capable of understanding a two-liner nor to respond to them. As anyone could see I questioned your silly statements about how another user would give the conquistadores permission or not. Which is such an irrelevant, infantile and stupid question as such, but furthermore you are not even capable of understanding the critics.

Its not ad hominem to state that, you would not ven find Brazil on a map, which is why you are parroting ******* standard phrases and unload this tons of bullshit into this forum about Bolsonaro and try to create a connex to topics centuries ago, Bolsonaro has not anything to do with, completely irrelevant in this context. If you find thats ad hominem, dont write such stupid comments.

You have chuzpe, after you were making things up (Lula never agitating against the white man according to you), being refuted (I gave you one of many citations with the BBC as source) to tell me I should not write in this discussion, as I have nothing relevant to say. You propably heard the first time of Lula after some socialist propaganda went North in the aftermath of the election and Bolsonaro's indisputable triumph.

 

Sigh, I thought you weren't talking to me anymore???
Do you find this kind of hostility and ignorance helps you make a point in discussions here? Because to what I'm seeing it makes you look like uninformed and resorting to personal insults when you cannot support a logical argument. How am I spamming? I'm not trying to sell anything.

This paragraph is not even coherent enough to respond to. I am sorry you cannot follow through on a complete thought or speak clearly enough to make yourself understood but this is not my problem. If you were less hostile I would suggest some reading material that would help you understand the situation in Brazil but as you said upthread that you were interested in return to death squads and killing your imagined enemies I can see that trying to educate or reason with someone of your simple, brutish character would be pointless.

Yes, everything you have posted above is an ad hominem personal attack meant to deflect from the fact that you cannot support a logical argument. It was not I that tried to make a "connex" to topics centuries ago. I made the point in the opening post that Bolsonaro was quoted in a recent speech saying it was too bad that the Brazilian cavalry was not as ruthless as the American and that he is prepared to use force to take away the CONSTITUTIONALLY protected land rights of aboriginals by force. This is a position you endorse,btw even going as far as to call for the murder of aboriginals and socialists yourself.

The "connex" to topics centuries ago came up because another poster besides me decided to make a comparison of "civilization" going back to the time of the conquest and basically taking the position that the Spanish were justified in taking over Incas land because they were savages - a position that I refuted. So it wasn't me who brought up centuries ago it was a side discussion that developed between me and another poster which really had little to do with Bolsonaro and more with aboriginal land rights. This is a distinction you are clearly not able to follow so I suggested you take a time out to educate yourself or perhaps to get over whatever is causing your childish hostility.

The Inca ruled the environs of Peru not Brazil anyway so your rather immature little rant against me has no relevance to the discussion I was having with Starjet.

I never said anything about "Lula" agitating against the white man. This is a canard that you made up that I did not feel was relevant enough to comment on. The BBC source you submitted did not back up any of your claims other than some of the better off blacks and gays voted for Bolsonaro mainly due to crime issues. The single quote of de Silva was taken out of context in light of the fact he was speaking in terms of Bolsonaro's threats to constitutionally protected rights of aboriginals.

That you support death squads and the murder of socialists speaks volumes. Your references in almost every post to anti-white policy;

and your fallback to use of violence and force to try to make an usupportable argument are noted:

All the hostility and threats just prove the point that you have nothing relevant to say other than ad hominem and personal attacks. You have not documented anything except for a single BBC article.

If that is all you have, I think you were right when you said you shouldn't post to me anymore as I tend to favour people who can make a reasonable argument in legible English rather than those who resort to insults when they can't construct a logical thought with reasonable comprehension skills.

 

@EarthSky I fully understand your concern and it's quite noble of your. However, the precedent governments didn't acted a lot in favor of those people. As far as I know, they said they cared but did nothing, Bolsonaro is less hypocrite and more direct, even if it doesn't make him sympathetic.

I don't appreciate Bolsonaro, unfortunatly it's that kind of people you get when you let corruption and criminality prosper. An evil doesn't cure an evil however.

I'm not a big expert on Brazil. Are you Brazilian ?

 

I cut out the boring drivel, which is remarkable, as you claim my judgement of yours to be an ad hominem attack in the very same passage in that you try to reflect the very same attributes on me. Lol. But I dont expect someone with an IQ below room temperature to see the cognitive dissonance in there. So go on, if you feel better. I focus on the parts in which you fabricate lies.

In fact, I never did this here. I dont know if this misinterpretation is the result of obvious diabilities or a miserable character or maybe a mixture of both.

1. What I stated is that the majority of Brazilians voted for wiping out the socialists by all means (which includes the mass murder) and that I am not the one who judge them for it (my guess is up to know it's limited intellect which prevents a user from understanding the difference to a "call for it").

2. I never stated in this context anything about the murder of aboriginals (thats the part in which a miserable character is the main factor), that is a simple lie to smear what I wrote with the intention of feeding a desire to throw dirt.

We both know, you will never be able to deliver a citation in which I call for the mass murder of aboriginals. For the first part you have my pardon as I see you will never be able to see the difference between your interpretation and what I actually wrote.

Oh, you did not? Let's have a little fact check here:


---

---
Well, so here we have it, I was stating the socialist's anti-White policy failed, you were denying that there ever was one (which proves by the way you never followed Brazilian policy), I refuted you with a typical of Lula's anti-White propaganda statements, for which I gave the source. Now, some pages further you think it's dead and buried and you can simply accuse me of being a liar by bringing that up. Now I simply prove that it's you who fabricate lies here.

OMG, try to click on a link and read the text (although you will surely not understand it, it will give you an idea of what it is about), before you deliver further epic fails like that. ou are completely confusing the sources here.

Really, this is bitter. That quote of Lula da Silva (try to get the name straight if you wanna pretend to be an expert for Brazil politics and have in fact no idea; you can e.g. google the names you never heard of) is from 2009! Your statement that he was speaking in terms of Bolsonaro's threat is so incredibly foolish, your ignorance of the political circumstances so deep and your inability to just read it in the text so shocking, that the parrots will fall from the tree in shame for their co-inhabitants on the planet earth.


And one more thing, it's silly to discuss with you anything about this topic anymore as your ignorant comments show, but of course I will react to your lies I called for the mass murder of aboriginals or similar idiocy.

 

Who says? The rational mind. What authority? Reason

But you have strange view of Western Civilization vs Primitive Tribalism. Call me “One-too-many-tokes” on the tokem pipe, but tribal chiefs and witch doctors over elected leaders and scientists? Shaka Zulu over Thomas Jefferson? Hmmm? Let me think. Nope, I love my liberty and my HD TV.

 

The right wing only cares about natural rights, in abortion threads.

 

It's not like there is only a rhetorical difference between Bolsonaro and his predecessors. He both says and intends to do awful things about/to the indigenous people of Brazil.

 

upgrading existing cities could actually help free up greenspace.

 

You see, here's the thing about indigenous tribes, they don't belong in the 21st century, or in Western Civilization. They are primitives minds barely able to comprehend cars, let alone spaceships. Like those murdering monsters of North Sentinel Island, the Sentinelese.

So I shed no tears for the Indigenous; I’d much rather enjoy the civilized.

 

No I am not Brazilian but I'm glad you understand my concern. Yes the previous governments all had problems with corruption but that is hardly unique in the world. It is unfortunate but seems to be the norm in many places these days.

My concern is that these extreme right-wing populists who advocate for authoritarianism and undermine constitutionally protected land rights with threats of violence are not the answer but more of a knee-jerk reaction by a populace that is fed up with gang and drug violence. It is much like the election in the US where in order to make a point from a population who the government is no longer serving they bring to power a regime that is worse than what they had before.

Don't forget, this guy wants to open up environmentally protected indigenous lands for exploitation by foreign corporations much the way Trump has gutted democratic institutions such as the EPA and basically made any kind of management or regulation impossible.

Also Bolsonaro and members of his regime have openly praised the former dictatorship that came before the left-wing governments. Given his threats of violence and determination to disregard the countries constitution, and the history of extreme right-wing dictatorships (often directly supported by the US) in the region, yes, I find the rise of Bolsonaro a direct threat to the Brazilian people. Using violence will not solve poverty or gang violence in Brazil any more than it has in the Philippines or central America.

 

lol, Yeah, you keep saying you are not talking to me anymore yet you can't seem to stop yourself.

Look, I gave a brief glance at your link and some of your post but I don't really take anything you say seriously. So you may think you have made some brilliant point and maybe others will find something there but I don't see it nor am I really interested.

In my experience, posters who use insults and personal attacks in place of reasonable discussion are the sewer-dwelling clowns who unfortunately infest forums like this in order to derail real communication so they can get their jollies throwing their turds around like monkeys in a zoo.

So I'm not taking anything you say seriously and I don't care about your opinion. You are after all supporting a man who praises dictatorship and has threatened indigenous populations with violence and is proposing violating the countries constitutionally protected land rights.

I understand that it is impossible to support such a position hence all the hissy fits and stupid insults but I'm really not interested in anything you have to say.

If you choose to post in a more sedate, laid back style, I will certainly attempt to address any valid points you make.

But imo, sewer-dwelling clowns are best left in the sewer where they belong.

So, I would encourage you to follow through on your stated goal of not posting to me anymore and stick to it this time as there is nothing to really discuss unless you learn to post as an adult which I doubt you have the capacity for.

Have a nice day

 

The one two many tokes on the bong thing actually explains a lot....... But hey, no judgement on my part as long as you are enjoying yourself and not hurting anyone.

Enjoy your liberty and TV but remember that everyone has the same rights to these as you do.

 

I'll remind the Progressives as they suck the life out of the living to protect and care for the walking dead, the Indigenous Aboriginal Primitives.

 

What a horrible outlook on humanity..
Shows blackness isn't always beautiful.

 

To make point: in real life, what should a civilized soul do when meeting a cannibal? Teach them how to use a knife and fork?

 

Brazil is just one of many examples of how "far-right-wingers" act. Another European example is Victor Orban in Hungary, who has also eliminated the constitution with tricks and campaigns. Imagine the following situation as an American:
An US President, whose party has the absolute majority House of Representatives and in the Senate, gradually decrees with its majorities decrees and ordinances that exclude opposing and disturbing, but parts of the constitution which are commonly being rated as democratic core values and also kills the power of the Supreme Court as a last resort. As a result of these measures, both chambers and thus the president have, beyond the constitution, to decide things, or simply to change the constitution as they wish. Let's just say ... the president thinks it's bad that women can vote, so they decide that women should not vote in elections anymore...

Sounds like science fiction? No, that's the reality in Hungary and that's exactly why Orban is in trouble with the EU, because Hungary, when it joined the EU, is contractually forbidden to do something like that as member ... even if Orban does of course not intend to eleminate womens right to vote ... at least to my knowledge.

And Brazil? Somehow a dejavue of the whole, eh?

But, admittedly, there are equally evil examples of the political far-left wingers. In Romania, the post-communists rule with a high majority in parliament. Romania is a swamp of corruption in all areas, and it is precisely the ruling post-communist politicians who are on the dock here to be corrupt and make abuse of office.
So what to do for these post-communist? They decided in Parliament by their large majority new laws, according to which many things in corruption and abuse of office are no longer punishable and are now legal, or others are reduced as a crime on a ridicule of offenses ... only as bad as parking wrong by car.
They try and decide again and again ... but the conservative opposition calls every time the luckily functioning Romanian Supreme Court and the judges throws the newly resolved laws in the "bin of nullity" for violation of the Constitution!

 

So in other words, you dont have the abilities to understand a normal article of the BBC even on the most basic level. It was about a quote of Lula da Silva in which he stated the White Man is responsilble for the economic crises in 2009. You first tried to summarize it that this aricle was about gays voting for Bolsonaro, then after I told you how stupid your remarks are that Lula meant something different in the light of Bolsonaro. Which is absurd in 2009.

Of course you would appreciate my silence. You wanna pretend to be an expert for Brazil to slam Bolsonaro and feed this forum with ******* gibberish and for some part you had success to convince other people ("are you Brazilian?").

It is of course not nice that I interrupt that flow by showing the posters here

- that you cannot even spell the name of the former president Lula da Silva
- that you called him Lula de Silva which suggests that you consider Spanish to be the main language in Brazil
- that you wanna put the fear of Bolsonaro in the year 2009, when nobody cared about Bolsonaro and his speech was in the context of the economic crisis
- that you deny that the PT did in fact use an anti-White rhetoric (as I proved with my BBC link you found yourself unable to understand)
- that you have obviously no idea of the political incidents in Brazil (between Lula da Silva and Bolsonaro have been two other presidents which you would confuse with something to eat if I recall them to you, yet you consider 2009 a phase between Lula and Bolsonaro fighting for political power)

Very strange for someone who pretends to be so interested in the interests of indigenous people in Brazil. It could come to mind, that this is just senseless liberal drivel, dont you think. Cry me a river you feel insulted by this. Let's see who still believes here you are Brazilian.

 

So in other words your whole accusation above was just utter nonsense. But it fits! Put some freely fabricated accusations against Victor Orban into a thread that was created to spread some nonsense about Bolsonaro.

Maybe we should re-name this thread into "******* porn" and use it as a trashcan for all those fantasies. Trump eating Mexican babies at lunch, Netanyahu slaughtering Christian children collecting their blood as an ingridient for Matzu, Duterte bathing in a pool of freshly executed prisoners each morning,Salvini raping virgins who are enchained in his cellar and Putin is most obviously a vampire. Feel free, let your fantasies go, this thread has seen a lot already, but surely you can do better.

 

We're living in dark times from this point. I'm fed up with corruption in my own country (France) and I don't have any sympathy anymore for the elites or the "system", I don't have any more the wish to support them against people like Bolsonaro.
In a way I understand the Brazilian which voted for Bolsonaro or people which voted for Trump. I think however that those kind of people are just mirror of the madness of the left. The left often refused to consider seriously the problem of security, and in many countries security, controle of the border is a monopoly of the right.

I suppose there is a revolution to have. Not the one with pike and forch, but a global change in the institutions. There is aswell a necessary change in the philosophy people have. Nowodays democracy don't have any choice, either they reform themselves deeply, or they perish. There is no stationnary point.

A part of the solution would be to substitute some elected assemblies by random drawn people which would prevent the formation of an elite, force newspaper to be indenpendant from billionaires and government. I think too that ideologies tend to be traps. When people trap themselves as conservative, libertarian, progressive, I have the feeling they loose of their rationnality and it's only herd way of thinking.

I think we're living in the end of an epoch. Some epochs have to go to an end. Our nowodays socities model are I think dead. I'm may be very fatalistic.

 

Indeed. Democratic institutions and constitutional norms seem to be under assault all around the globe. And Brazil is just another example of a government that rises to power on platforms of fighting corruption and lawlessness and then throw away all the regulations in place to fight those things and allow the corrupt and lawless to act with impunity. Thanks for reposting my op, btw which my serve to get the thread back on track from the trolling. From the op:

"The government has invoked “national security” to trample over the constitutional rights of indigenous people.

"Brazil is the deadliest country in the world for environmental defenders, but violence directed at indigenous people can’t be explained simply as a battle over resources: in many cases, it is quite obviously hate crime. On the night of Bolsonaro’s election victory, for example, a health centre and a school were firebombed on Pankararu lands in the northeast of the country.

There are dozens of reports from all over Brazil of what sometimes seems like open warfare against indigenous communities. In an attempt to stifle NGOs who oppose his interests, Bolsonaro has issued a decree that government authorities can “supervise, coordinate, monitor and accompany the activities and actions of international organisations and non-governmental organisations in the national territory”. Environmental groups have been threatened with expulsion and Ricardo Salles, the new environment minister, has tried to suspend all government partnerships with NGOs in the country for three months. He believes that protected Amazon areas hold up “development” and is advocating commercial farming and mining on indigenous reserves, including those where uncontacted tribes live, which would almost certainly wipe them out."

There have already been firebombings and assaults on indigenous people fully encouraged by the government whose inflammatory comments about the comparisons to the American cavalry are an invitation to violence. Keep in mind that indigenous lands are protected under the constitution - so as you said, just ignoring or changing the constitution as they wish.

And this is so he can open up indigenous lands and sensitive ecosystems to exploitation by international corporations which is where you start to get into the very real corruption of the political process by pure avarice of land and resources by foreign players.

Getting corruption out of the political process is an on-going problem on all sides of the political spectrum. I am not sure there is an effective solution at this point as big money has become so pervasive in all aspects of politics that removing it is as difficult as getting religion out of the political process was for generations past.

I am not sure that getting religion out was completely successful given the power of religious lobbies in some countries......getting corporate corruption out will be even harder.