Can I ask a procedural question about impeachment?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Reasonablerob, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Surely it requires a vote from the Senate and they are currently in recess? So how can it go forwards? And surely it can only be applied to a sitting president? Won't Trump be a private citizen by the time it's enacted?
     
  2. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Senate is in recess, but they can start holding trials on it when they get back in session, which I think is on the 19th. Yes, they can impeach and convict even after he leaves office, though the impeachment part is happening today.
     
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  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And they already have legislation scheduled and since they unanimously voted to recess until the 19th it only takes ONE Senator to object to come back early. And when is Trump going to get a chance to defend himself against the charges. The House Democrats are refusing him due process a fundamental principle of our country. The Dems started out with their "we must remove him before he does something like launch nuclear weapons or declares marital law" and other such nonsense. Then they realized that they could not do that in the time left so they switched to the "so he cannot run for President again", well isn't that something the people should decided and disqualification is upon removal they are tied together. The Constitution says the Senate shall hold a trial of THE President not the EX-President. It says judgement shall be limited to removal AND disqualification, not and/or, the latter is dependent of the former.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  4. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    There are no charges yet. Due process for defending oneself against the charges happens after the charges are made. The House charges. The Senate decides whether or not to convict. His defense would come during the trial, which happens in the Senate, not the House. They aren't denying him anything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    He's being charged in the impeachement and not allowed to defend against those charges. The Senate only decides if the impeachment warrants removal not that the impeachment is null and void. That impeachment occurs in the House.
     
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  6. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    The trial and decision of whether or not to convict on those charges is done in the Senate. That's when Trump gets to defend himself against charges -- during the actual trial.
     
  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The House can impeach a President for drinking the wrong wine with fish - and you can bet they considered doing it.
    Nothing else matters - just the whim of the house, whose (D) members, and their useful idiots, believe they should use the power of the constitution to humiliate one person.

    Pure petulance.
     
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  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Whether or not he is removed is the ONLY decision the Senate makes. It is not the tryer of nor the investigator of facts. Trump IS impeached and not matter what the Senate does he remains impeached, if the vote not to convict that doesn't make the impeach go away. In an actual trial the defendant is allowed to defend himself ONLY and the SENTENCING trial. The House should have conducted a full impeachment with both sides able to bring their witnesses and evidence and Trump allowed to defend himself against THE IMPEACHMENT.
     
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  9. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    The Senate holds a trial about whether to convict. Please read the Constitution.
     
  10. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    The most bipartisan impeachment in the history of the USA happened. To the useless idiot in the WH.
     
  11. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Yep, but since when does procedure stop the radical left?
     
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  12. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The last impeachment had a trial in the house and not the Senate. Try to keep up with what's going on.
     
  13. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    The Senate has sole power over trying impeachment. Try to keep up with the Constitution.
     
  14. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you not remember the last impeachment we had over Ukraine? The house had a big investigation. As soon as it went to the Senate they voted and that was that.
     
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Do you not remember the Constitution? The Senate has the sole power of holding actual trials. The House brings charges and can conduct whatever investigations they want to determine those charges, but they don't hold actual impeachment trials and they don't convict. That's up to the Senate. Please read the Constitution.
     
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  16. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Impeachment is not a trial. It's more closely related to a grand jury hearing. The decision is merely whether or not to send the case to trial. The Senate is the judge/jury, and they will hear from Trump and/or his lawyers.
     
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  17. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So the house Democrats hold a trial when they don't control the Senate but when they do they just impeach and move on. Anyone can see the agenda here.

    It all seems stupid to me. The Democrats have made impeachment a joke so don't freak out when the Republicans decide to do the same thing.
     
  18. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They don't hold a trial. This is pretty easy stuff.

    They decide if they want to send a president TO trial. A grand jury hearing isn't a trial.

    Note: Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job in The Oval. So, there's that.
     
  19. Matthewthf

    Matthewthf Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They did hold a trial or hearings in the last impeachment and called up witnesses and spent days trying to prove thier case to decide if Trump should be impeached and then held a vote. Call it what you want but it did happen.

    The Democrats have turn impeachment into a joke.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  20. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Your refusal to read the Constitution is no one's fault but your own. Trying impeachment is SOLELY the power of the Senate. It has been that way since the Constitution was ratified in 1787.

    I don't get why you and @Bluesguy refuse to read a document that is so central to our country and, frankly, quite short and easy to digest.
     
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  21. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Impeachment is NOT a trial. They have witnesses at grand jury hearings, too. Not a trial.

    Impeachment = a charge of misconduct.

    Charges are not trials.
     
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  22. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm confused as to why this is so difficult to comprehend.
     
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  23. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The trial is whatever the Senate decides it is. Then they have it.

    Trump went too far this time. He should be convicted and in a subsequent Senate vote prevented from running for federal office. We can argue over the rest.
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You should try it yourself, and JUDGEMENT SHALL SOLELY BE REMOVE OR NOT REMOVE. That is the SENTENCING. Tell me in a trial if the jury finds you innocent does the indictment the charge go away? Yes. Does it in an impeachment? No. The impeachment says THIS IS WHAT THE PRESIDENT DID. That does not change by the action of the Senate. Therefore it is in the HOUSE where the President should have been given the opportunity to mount a defense the the Democrats required to bring their evidence to support their charges. THAT is where he should have been allowed to face his accusers. It is NOT in the Articles of Impeachment. But then this is NOT about about which we have impeachment and the intent of the Constitution.

    And go and read the Constitution and where it says the Chief Justice shall sit in judgement in an impeachment of former Presidents. If you can't find that then tell me what it DOES say. Show me where it says the Senate shall hold trials for former Presidents. If you can't find that tell me what it does say.
     
  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is where the charges are present and a determination if they are true is made. The Senate has ONE judgement, remove or not for the offenses for which the President was impeached. The trial in the Senate in the Clinton impeach was not about whether he committed perjury and obstruction of justice, it was about should he be removed for doing so. It is the SENTENCING trial.

    Are you claiming that if the Senate does not convict the impeachment goes away?
     

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