Giuliani sells Trump's pardons for $2 million

The answer is obvious, and it's obviously not to be brought to light

 

The Mueller report noted the difference between collusion and conspiracy (or coordination) as there is a legal distinction.

I was wrong. It has been a while but the examples of collusion number 14 not 10.
Below is the list that has probably been posted on these forums a million times but I am newish so who knows? They involve Americans. Sorry for huge copy paste.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guide-to-the-mueller-reports-findings-on-collusion/

1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin.

2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails.

3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine.

4. The Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska.

5. Trump Campaign chairman Manafort expected Trump’s winning the presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere.

6. Trump Tower meeting: (1) On receiving an email offering derogatory information on Clinton coming from a Russian government official, Donald Trump Jr. “appears to have accepted that offer;” (2) members of the Campaign discussed the Trump Tower meeting beforehand; (3) Donald Trump Jr. told the Russians during the meeting that Trump could revisit the issue of the Magnitsky Act if elected.

7. A Trump Campaign official told the Special Counsel he “felt obliged to object” to a GOP Platform change on Ukraine because it contradicted Trump’s wishes; however, the investigation did not establish that Gordon was directed by Trump.

8. Russian military hackers may have followed Trump’s July 27, 2016 public statement “Russia if you’re listening …” within hours by targeting Clinton’s personal office for the first time.

9. Trump requested campaign affiliates to get Clinton’s emails, which resulted in an individual apparently acting in coordination with the Campaign claiming to have successfully contacted Russian hackers.

10. The Trump Campaign—and Trump personally—appeared to have advanced knowledge of future WikiLeaks releases.

11. The Trump Campaign coordinated campaign-related public communications based on future WikiLeaks releases.

12. Michael Cohen, on behalf of the Trump Organization, brokered a secret deal for a Trump Tower Moscow project directly involving Putin’s inner circle, at least until June 2016.

13. During the presidential transition, Jared Kushner and Eric Prince engaged in secret back channel communications with Russian agents. (1) Kushner suggested to the Russian Ambassador that they use a secure communication line from within the Russian Embassy to speak with Russian Generals; and (2) Prince and Kushner’s friend Rick Gerson conducted secret back channel meetings with a Putin agent to develop a plan for U.S.-Russian relations.

14. During the presidential transition, in coordination with other members of the Transition Team, Michael Flynn spoke with the Russian Ambassador to prevent a tit for tat Russian response to the Obama administration’s imposition of sanctions for election interference; the Russians agreed not to retaliate saying they wanted a good relationship with the incoming administration.

 

My thoughts. Baseless hyperbole as usual.

Of course you people want investigations of your baseless claims. There is a lurking fear that 4 years from now, after a Biden disaster, Trump will run again and win.

 

Other than bashing Trump, the libs apparently have no goal or purpose in life.

 

Very little except they worship different donars. Even those differences are likely based on political expediency instead of the person's actual beliefs.

Keep in mind I tend to seperate true Republicans from whatever the travesty that is Trump and his supporters.

 

None of this is collusion. A failed attempt to get some dirt on Clinton from a Russian lawyer. Trump saying "Russia if you're listening." I seriously hope you don't believe the conspiracy theory that he was actually giving the Kremlin marching instructions that way. For example, number 14, a transition team is expected to deal with foreign government such as Russia. That is in no way possible considered collusion. Every president does exactly that. But Trump... The summary of the report is spot on, no known collusion between any American and Russia.

 

Well pardon me. I was under the impression that those points were evidence of collusion since that is the what the report said.

I feel silly for not consulting you first.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

Ending construction of the border wall, reversing the highly/easily exploited asylum policies, a return to catch & release on our side, and 97 other immigration related changes (if that figure is still correct) this afternoon alone which amount to "open borders" - that's what we get that's why its described as such. Democrats don't have to say the exact phrase in order to achieve that.

State run media can claim anything it wants in order to fool its demographic but we saw what he signed today. You will pay more for fuel so get ready. If people want to stand at the pump watching those extra dollars tick thinking to themselves 'yea this is just like how thins were under Trump', well that's just fine. But energy costs are going up and not only for fuel but for everything else we buy that factors transportation into its sale price.

'The electorate' is not the Electoral College, its the body of people who vote, its us. For a political party to use its majority to create two new states knowing that it would gain 4 seats in the Senate that would never stand a chance of going to the opposition is cheating the system, just as is stacking a court with judges pledged to uphold your actions.

 

No the Mueller report did not find collusion. These are bullets "mined" from the report. Do you seriously believe that a transition team after the election trying to establish initial relations with Russia is somehow collusion? Just like every presidency before them has done? That's what these silly bullets are saying.

 

Ending construction on the border wall was a good thing. That was a joke. I looked and didn’t see where his plan ended catch and release ? You have a link somewhere that shows that ?

He is not proposing open borders. Most of the changes he made were to allow paths to citizen while for immigrants already here.

So your position is “just because we dont have any proof, doesn’t mean its not going to happen”....ok

PR has deserved to be a state or a very long time. It was politically useful as a territory for a long time so that corporate america could use their labor much cheaper, and then not have to pay in import tariffs.

Trump LITERALLY stacked the courts, and I didn’t see you chastising him for that. As a matter of fact you actually thought that was a good thing

 

There is a difference between establishing communications and undermining the current administrations standing policies without their knowledge. I can't believe I have to say that. Are you for real?

 

It's called lame duck for a reason. The new administration is trying to establish relations and prevent retaliation. Unfortunately they ended up increasing sanctions. That has zero to do with collusion, unless someone such as the author of those stupid bullets is completely delusional.

 

It's called "lame duck" because the incoming administration can secretly make foreign policy agreements that undermine the existing administrations policy? You are teaching me a lot.

 

That's what incoming administrations do is set their own policies. Which either way has zero to do with collusion. Pretty sure your using that word incorrectly.

 

I didn't use the word. Mueller and his team did.

 

Ah.. Mueller. And how did that work out for you? 35 of this countries most zealous democratic legal hounds and they couldn't come up with credible evidence. Of course most of them still all paid their dues to their party, so, no foul right?

 

They did come up with evidence. Have someone read the report to you.

As I stated previously, republicans and their investigations have been a waste.

 

Then what is the difference between a "true Republican" politician and a Democrat?

 

I already stated that difference.

 

You did not give any specific examples of differences between "true Republican" politicians and Democrat politicians. Please share your thoughts on the specific differences.

You did claim that "true Republican" pols are different from Trump Republicans. How so?

 

Just because you have not read it does not mean there is nothing there

 

What was there? Where were the indictments? And for those that did get indicted, where are the convictions?

 

I feel like I am being set up but in the spirit of debate I will answer.

1. Abortion for/against
2. Repubs support the 2nd a little bit more than dems.
3. Repubs tax policies are based on supply side and dems tax policies are based on demand side economics. (Tendency)
4. Repubs tend to support religion in politics/schools more then dems.

Generally speaking the biggest difference, IMHO, is traditional republicans support party ideologies. Trump republicans support Trump.

 

Trump's base supported the specific campaign promises he ran on in 2016.

For instance:

1. The Wall
2. Ending NAFTA
3. Ending the TPP and challenging the CCP
4. Reducing regulations
5. Cutting taxes
6. Appointing constitutionalist judges

 

I have a more jaded outlook. I suspect that 80 or 90 percent of voters from both sides really have no idea how NAFTA, TPP etc work or the nuances of how they affect our economy. I think most voters view those issues based on the narrative given by the respective parties. For repubs it is spun as America first and for dems it is spun as global influence.

The wall is nothing but a symbolic gesture for votes. I guarantee that nothing either party does will interrupt the desired flow of illigal workers. Lobbyists make sure of that.

I support reducing regulations but I believe Trump was indiscriminate and took this to far.

As I stated earlier the main difference bt repubs and dems when it comes to taxes is supply side vs demand side economics. I tend to support demand side economics but supply side has its virtues as well.

What is a constitutionalist judge? Do we have unconstitutionalist judges? Are you speaking of the Supreme Court?