Hitler's Socialism.

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Bob Newhart, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    This video is quite long. Quite a large number of people I believe need the primer at the beginning of the video. If you feel you do not, the time stamps are listed below the film as well as a pdf if you would rather read.

    Here is one spectrum of economic systems.

    Group Tyranny < ----------------------------------- > Individual liberty

    Obviously, no system is purely on one side or the other. The question is rather how far on one side or another a system is.

     
  2. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist or capitalist.

    He appealed to German capitalists for support with the promise to defend them and their wealth against the socialists who were indeed a threat.

    As soon as your boy started carrying on against people who claim Hitler was a capitalist, I lost interest.
     
    Dirty Rotten Imbecile likes this.
  3. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    .

    Hitler's political party was called "National Socialist"... but there was private ownership and free enterprise in the Third Reich. Hitler valued "blood and soil" = ethnic Germans and especially German farmers. Hitler hated marxists. In the early 1930s while evil marxist Stalin was murdering family farmers to steal their farms for soviet collectivization [after which many millions of Russians and Ukrainians starved]... Hitler passed a law to protect German family farms and make sure they were inherited within those farming families. Hitler also created special schools so each German child regardless of class and economic means was given the opportunity to reach his full potential.


    Unlike Stalin's marxists who encouraged women to work in the factories and military... Hitler encouraged marriage and traditional families with the wife's role as mother and homemaker.

    Below are quotes from Hitler's speech to women at his 1936 Nuremberg Rally:

    “As long as we have sound men — and we National Socialists will see to that — there will be no women throwing hand grenades in Germany, no women sharp-shooters. That is not equality for women, but rather their debasement”

    “Women have boundless opportunities to work. For us the woman has always been the loyal companion of the man in work and life. People often tell me: You want to drive women out of the professions. No, I only want to make it possible for her to found her own family and to have children, for that is how she can best serve our people!”

    “Real leadership has the duty to enable every man and woman to fulfill their dreams, or at least to make it easier for them to do so. We seek this goal through laws that encourage the healthy education of children. But we have done more than simply pass laws. We are educating for German women and girls a manly youth, the men of tomorrow!”

    "In my 18 years of struggle, I have gone a way that knowledge and consciousness of duty demanded. I have never left this way. But my life will have meaning only if our people lives, if a healthy posterity matures."

    "As I travel through Germany, I see in the millions of children nothing less than what gives meaning to all of our work. I see children who in obeying their mothers also obey me."

    "When I see this wonderful growing youth, my work becomes easy. I overcome every weakness. Then I know why I do everything. It is not to build some miserable business that will perish, but rather this work is for something lasting and eternal. A vital part of this future is the German girl, the German woman."

    "I do not measure the success of our work by our roads. I do not measure it by our new factories, or our new bridges, or the new divisions. Rather, I measure our success by the effect we have on the German child, the German youth. If they succeed, I know our people will not perish and our work will not have been in vain."


    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  4. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    No. The video goes over this. The Nazi's revoke the right to property very early on.
    You should really watch the video.

    National socialism = Racial socialism
    Marxist Socialism = workers/class socialism

    Same thing with a different application. Hitler hated Marxists for the same reason he hated Capitalists - he believed they were a part of the same international Jewish conspiracy. He believed Marxist socialism was the wrong way to do socialism. He, Hitler, was going to do Socialism the right way. (Ever heard something similar before?)
    While they murdered the Jews and took their property.

    National socialism = Murder certain "races" and take their stuff.
    Marxist socialism = Murder the capitalist and take their stuff.
    If you studies anything about those schools, you would know that the education was indoctrination.
    Propoganda - The number of women working in Nazi Germany during WWII was over 14 million.

    The speech you quoted was a fantasy of the socialist paradise Hitler wished to create.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
  5. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    Look at 3:10.
     
  6. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    I would like to read a book that tells the truth, not from a JEWISH Propaganda piece, nor from a socialist point of view, or even what so much today is about, Advocacy...

    Tell you what, look at where this country is today with business ownership. Those that own all the big biotech, big media (all 5), the Banks, run the FED, and so on. All Jewish People. Why is this ? And how will all the Irish, Italians, German heritage, and just plain Americans feel about that in another 20 years ? Dont you think someone like the 1923 HITLER will come along and scream from the rooftops "Look at who owns and is making all of the money" And dont you think the people, with Military and Police help will want to take it back ?

    The inequality is off the charts already, but not even close to pushing people off the cliff. History repeats itself, this time will obviously be different as the 500 Owners of business LEFT in this country 20 years from now will just get on a plane and Fly to Israel...

    The Art Laffers of the world are the ones that came along with NOVEL ideas, ones that create inequality yet sound fundamentally sound at the time. Nothing wrong with an idea, the problem is dumb people that go along, those rich enough to not worry about the working class. Bush Family, Ron Reagan, and thousands of others. Supply side economics anyone ? Glass Stiegel ? The list goes on and on... Why one has to prepare for what is coming....
     
  7. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    No, they did not.
    Nonsense.
    Hitler was not a socialist because he didn't collectivize production.

    You're a rightwinger who wants people believe fascism isn't a rightwing response to socialism. Fascists are a danger on the right, not the left.
     
  9. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    [​IMG]

    Hitler said he was a Catholic so I guess he was…and I thought Henry Ford was a capitalist.

    [​IMG]
    Henry Ford receives Nazi Award which he never returned even after WWII.
    A very popular argument by the Right is say that the Nazis were Leftwing, when in fact they were Rightwing in both Germany and the United States.

    The Nazis were pro-Christian, anti-communist, certainly anti-Marxist, imprisoned atheist and labor leaders--that sounds right-wing to me! So since the Nazis embraced the Catholic Church (and the Church embraced Hitler), should we call Christianity fascist? And why did the Nazis view "liberals" as their enemy?

    In America, German Fascism dazzled many American leaders of capitalist industry. They were William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy(JFK’s father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Henry Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush (don’t forget him), National City Bank, and General Electric.

    [​IMG]
    Charles Lindberg with Nazi officials.

    [​IMG]
    In October 1938, Lindbergh was presented by Goering, on behalf of the Fuehrer, the Service Cross of the German Eagle for his contributions to aviation.

    GM and Ford built nearly 90% of the armored 3-ton half-trucks and 70% of the Nazi medium and heavy-duty trucks used in WWII. Greame K. Howard, Vice President of General Motors, wrote and published “American and a New World Order” and argued that America should cooperate with the Nazis.

    [​IMG]
    Hearst with Nazi officers...bunch of good ol' boys.

    The Du Ponts financed the Black Legion that was an American Nazi group that used violence against unions and was connected to the Ku Klux Klan.
    http://www.rationalrevolution.net/images/hearstnazi.jpg

    Williams Randolph Hearst was a real fan of the Nazi party. Remember those magazine pictures of Hilter’s retreat in Germany. Did you ever wonder how Better Homes and Gardens magazine got those pictures for the 1938 article? Hearst and Hilter were friends!
    [​IMG]
    Thomas J. Watson and the Hollerith number tattoos put on Nazi death camp prisoners.
    http://www.rationalrevolution.net/images/ibmnazi.png

    And this is the worst of all. Thomas J. Watson, the head executive of IBM, leased data sorting computers using IBM's Hollerith punch card technology in 1933 to the Nazis enabling them to identify, find, and collect the victims of the Holocaust. Those numbers tattooed on the Jewish prisoners were of the Hollerith numbering system. Adolph Hitler awarded Watson a medal for his contribution! Allied forces bombed an IBM facility in Germany during the war and IBM demanded to be paid for damages--which the US paid.

    Yes, American business was doing its part in supporting Hitler. There is more....a lot more.
     
  10. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Hitler was no capitalist. The first tenet of fascism is the REJECTION of capitalism in favor of an economy managed by the government. Fascism has that in common with its ideological cousins, communism and socialism.
     
  11. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    That's true but, ultimately, industry and its owners were required to submit to the control of the government, or lose their business. For business owners, it was "go with the flow" and take the money or get out of the way and we'll (the government) do it without you. Hitler opposed a free-market economy in favor of an economy wherein industry was managed by the government. Of course, that doesn't mean that the Nazis were managing every bratwurst stand in Berlin, but the party/government (one and the same under fascism) could certainly dictate to them if they so desired.
     
  12. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Exactly right.

    Hitler was also a radical nationalist and German communists were aligned with the hated Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union. Hitler hated the German communists for these two reasons.
     
  13. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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  14. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    So it was more of a parasitic capitalist hybrid of Hitler needing the industrialists to back him to build his war machine and
    the capitalist business owners needing Hitler to pay for their goods because he held most of the purse-strings. Closer
    to Cartel situation than any of the "isms" (capitalism, communism, socialism).
     
  15. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Fascists oppose a free-market economy. Does the right oppose free-market economies? Or is it more often leftists that oppose free-market economies? What do Bernie, AOC, antifa, and BLM support? Do they support free-market economies or do they support what Hitler supported, an economy managed by the government?

    Fascists support government control of every facet of society, including education and healthcare. Does the right support government control of all education and healthcare or is the left that supports such things? It's certainly not the right that's calling for government provision of health care for the entire nation. It's not the right that wanted a "Department of Education" or "free college" for everyone; that's a leftist concept.

    Did you know that FDR was a big supporter of Benito Mussolini and Italian fascism? Did you know that many western politicians, ideologues and academics were too? Was FDR "far-right"?

    Fascism is a system of government and economics that entails government control over everything. Fascism only recognizes individual rights in so far as those rights coincide with the interests of the party/state. As Benito Mussolini said "Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State..."

    That is the polar opposite of what the right believes. The right supports LIMITED government, limited government power and supports individual rights, regardless of whether those rights coincide with the interests of the government or the party. Remember, it is the right that supports the RIGHT to own and bear arms. It is the left that largely opposes that practice.

    Once Hitler's death camps were uncovered, leftist, western, academics and others needed to distance themselves from the fascism that they once supported. Therefore, they tried to change the definition of fascism in order to claim that it was a "far-right" ideology.

    By the way, there is a difference between fascism and Nazism. Hitler, like many leftists throughout the world, was deeply impressed by Benito Mussolini. Therefore, he modeled the Nazi system after Italian fascism but added the concepts of "Aryan supremacy" along with the deep hatred of Jewry.

    Yes, fascism is the extreme of left-wing ideology. The only thing even more to the extreme left of fascism is communism, wherein the state doesn't just control everything; it owns everything. North Korea is the most left-wing nation in the world.
     
  16. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Neither the right or the left in this country completely support a free market economy - each just has different
    priorities of what they want regulated.
     
  17. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    The business owners were certainly capitalists, but they weren't the ones pulling the strings, so to speak. Someone once told me that fascism is when corporations take over a country. I asked them to give me the names of the corporate leaders in Germany that were giving Hitler orders. That was a short conversation.

    America's founding fathers were accustomed to dealing with corrupt tyrants and that's why they instituted free speech and the right to bear arms. They supported LIMITING government power while also guaranteeing the rights of CITIZENS in order to try and reduce the chances of a tyrant taking power in the U.S.

    Sadly, our nation has moved far to the left of what our founding fathers envisioned and the result is a loss of rights and a lower standard of living.
     
  18. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Most of the left and right support free-market economies. We do have a lot of "crony" capitalism wherein big business is protected by powerful politicians. There's a reason that AT&T's CNN network is hyper-partisan to the Democratic Party. Obviously, Democratic politicians protect AT&T's interests. It's the same reason that Facebook, Twitter, and Google are 100% supportive of the Democratic Party.

    You may remember prominent Democratic politicians threatening Facebook to either censor speech or face punishment. Facebook complied. That is, fundamentally, fascism.

    The CDC dictating that homeowners cannot evict a tenant for non-payment is flat-out fascism.

    Much of the left views fascism very favorably, as long it's not called "fascism".
     
  19. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    That's evil marxist propaganda.

    In Mein Kampf, Hitler said he was doing the "Lord's Work"

    In Hitler's Third Reich the only official religion was Christianity... and the state recognized many traditional Christian holidays.

    In 1938, Hitler helped Russians who had found sanctuary in Germany build a Russian Orthodox Church in Berlin. Ironically, that church now belongs to Putin's Moscow Patriarch.

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  20. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Yea, and Obama said he was a "Christian" when he too ran for office. Do you really believe that? I don't. I'm confident that Obama is an atheist. The thing is, coming out as an atheist when campaigning for office is usually not a way to get votes, particularly in 1920's Germany.
     
  21. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Source?
     
  22. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Well, Germany was a Christian nation, at least in name. Outlawing Christianity would have been Hitler's demise.

    There are secularists that rule in Islamic nations. If they want to hold power, is it politically expedient to outlaw Islam? Of course not. They're not stupid.
     
  23. K9Buck

    K9Buck Well-Known Member

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    Somehow, I don't believe that Hitler was a true follower of Jesus Christ. Is it your view that Hitler was a fervent Christian?
     
  24. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    from Wikipedia

    Christ Resurrection Cathedral

    "The Christ Resurrection Cathedral is a church building of the Berlin diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church in the Berlin district of Wilmersdorf in the Charlottenburg-Wilmersdorf district... The church was built between 1936 and 1938 by the Prussian Building and Finance Directorate by Karl Schellberg at Hohenzollerndamm 166 on today's Hoffmann-von-Fallersleben-Platz as a replacement for a previous building at 33 Hohenzollerndamm at the corner of Ruhrstraße after the space was claimed by the NSDAP."

    https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Christi-Auferstehungs-Kathedrale


    To understand this, first one must know there was a Russian Orthodox Church in Exile headed by Metropolitan Anastasy who praised and worked with Hitler. Originally the holy synod was exiled in Serbia until Stalin's Red Army threatened to overrun Serbia, then they moved to Germany. After WW2, they moved to New York and became the anti-communist Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia [which also now belongs to Putin's Moscow Patriarch.]

    Here is what Metropolitan Anastasy said about that new church in Berlin in October 1945:

    " Soon after his coming to power Hitler learned that the Russian Orthodox people in Berlin did not have a church of their own after the church built by them had been removed from the parish because they could not pay the debts they had incurred for it. This led immediately to order the release of considerable sums of money for the building of a new Orthodox church on a beautiful plot of land set aside for this in the German capital. We should note that Hitler took this step without any deliberate request on the part of the Russian Orthodox community and did not attach any conditions to his offering that might have been compensation for it. The Hierarchical Synod as well as the whole of Russia Abroad could not fail to value this magnanimous act, which came at a time when Orthodox churches and monasteries were being mercilessly closed, destroyed or used for completely unsuitable purposes (they were being turned into clubs, cinemas, atheist museums, food warehouses, etc.), and other holy things in Russia were being mocked or defiled. "

    .
     
  25. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Fascists typically curry favor with capitalists and capitalists embrace them out of fear of the socialists. The fascists and collectivists share a dislike for democracy.
     

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