How come drug dogs can’t be used to solve hard drug problems?

Discussion in 'Civil Liberties' started by Siskie, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Siskie

    Siskie Active Member

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    Are there court cases, maybe SCOTUS cases, that have ruled on this? It seems like the easiest way to clean up hard drugs is to walk a pack of drug dogs up and down neighborhood streets and let them point out the houses they alert on.

    Are there cases that specifically say this can’t be done?
     
  2. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure of your thought process here.

    First that has happened, but you still need probable cause and a warrant to go into a home. Second, there really aren't enough trained dogs to do this on a regular basis. Third, these dogs will alert on prescription medications as quickly as illegal drugs, especially since some of the drugs they detect are variations on the legal drug. Throw into all that, that a good half of the drug abuse problem today is the abuse of prescription drugs.

    So what is your plan when it comes to such prescription drugs? Have people on prescriptions get harassed by police every time they patrol the neighborhood?
     
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  3. Siskie

    Siskie Active Member

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    I am actually for legalizing all drugs and letting the chips fall where they may. I was just curious if cases had stated drug dogs can’t be used to walk up and down public streets and from there warrants had on alerts.
     
  4. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I doubt drug scenting dogs have the "range" to detect drugs inside a house from the roadside. When they're typically show used, they're specifically searching individual vehicles or items of luggage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  5. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    There is a case from a few years ago the SCOTUS ruled that they still had to have a warrant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._Jardines
     
  6. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can't think of any court rulings on what you have proposed but can imagine many legal problems that it would entail beginning with which neighborhoods are chosen to be searched.

    In addition to the other excellent reasons already mentioned, an additional problem with the idea would be the use of cayenne pepper by drug dealers that would disable the smelling ability of dogs for hours.
     
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  7. Siskie

    Siskie Active Member

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    Now that is interesting, but how many people actually know that? Is cayenne pepper a common knowledge thing, cause I’ve never heard of it until just now.
     
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  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that it's pretty well known but, by the same token, if you've taken the time to sprinkle cayenne pepper around the house, it's pretty obvious that you've got something to hide and it's not effective after a long period of time.
     
  9. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I too am all for shifting the drug abuse problem from a legal one to a medical one. However, I was answering the question given based upon the logistic of the issue, and asking a question accordingly. One does not have to agree with a situation to logically think about it.
     
  10. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Why do you want dogs to get doped up by sniffing drugs???? Thats cruel.
     
  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While I feel like the ongoing War on Drugs has been a counterproductive failure and oppose the use of drug sniffing dogs, my understanding is that the dogs are alerted by the smell of drugs (cannabis) and do not ingest the actual cannabis itself via their nose.
    When searching for cocaine or heroin, the same principle applies but the risk seams greater that the dogs may ingest a powdered substance especially if the container is damaged.
    Regrettably, I can imagine situations in which over eager DEA Agents would overwork the dogs in the hope of making a newsworthy bust.

    There's a part of me that says to just make everything legal and let Darwin's law sort things out but on the other hand, the collateral damage would be horrific as the hospital Emergency Rooms fill up with OD cases & DUI accidents during the "sorting out" period.
     
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  12. Siskie

    Siskie Active Member

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    Lots of happy homes busted up because instead of choosing weed to chill out on, they went with meth. It would be a wasteland short term. I think the long term would see society figure out an equilibrium.
     
  13. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    So start with this question. What were the short term and long terms effects of removing Prohibition?
     
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You obviously don't have many friends from the general area of Panama. Cayenne is a very used ingredient in cooking from that area and also a sort of 'folk' remedy for insects and other pests. Additionally, people from Cayenne aren't the only ones who like their food hot There are the Mexicans, the rest of South America, the Hungarians, and most of the Chinese and Southeast Asians. Hell, it's everybody. What you're going to end up with are a bunch of dogs who follow Emeril
     
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  15. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The other Poster was asking about the use of Cayenne to thwart drug sniffing dogs, not its widespread use in cooking and "folk" remedies.
     
  16. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    You stated:
    And @Aleksander Ulyanov pointed out that there are way many more uses besides hiding something for spreading cayenne pepper around a house. He also cite other uses as well, but he did prove that it can be spread around the house for more than "something to hide".
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
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  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I know that Cayenne has many legitimate uses and that most well stocked kitchens have it including my own. We even grew some in our vegetable garden over he summer.
    What I meant was that few people would literally sprinkle it around the outside perimeter of their house unless they were in possession of illegal drugs and were expecting a visit from the DEA.
    I don't doubt that some cultures may sprinkle it around the inside or outside of the house to ward off evil spirits, repel certain creatures etc but I've simply read that some drug dealers use it to thwart drug sniffing dogs.

    Do you know of anyone who sprinkles Cayenne around their house?
     
  18. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I've been told to, as it was recommended to ward off snakes but I never did.
     
  19. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    I know people who either have live plants or sprinkle various dried herbs and such on their property for such purposes. I have not inquire what each person specifically uses. We have mint planted all over as it works for most rodents.
     
  20. Skruddgemire

    Skruddgemire Well-Known Member

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    First of all, there is the range issue. Dogs do indeed have sensitive noses, but the dogs aren't going to be able to get close enough to pick up on it. Unlawful search and seizure rules would prevent the dogs from going on the property without a warrant....keeping them away from the house itself. And even if they did get to the outer edges of the house...the odds are still against the dog from sniffing it out. I've seen enough dog searches where the dog went around a car many times and did not detect anything. They had to be able to go into the car to find anything and even then had to put their nose in close range of the substance.

    Secondly, even if they could detect something from the street...how do you know which house to get the warrant for? Let's say you're patrolling a set of townhouses where each residence shares two walls. The dog whiffs on something in one of those blocks. That smell would be coming from one of a number of residences. One has the drug, the others do not. What happens if you get the warrant for the wrong house? At best the one with the drug hears about it and while waiting on the new warrant goes and hides the drugs meaning that now all the effort was wasted. At worst...with the way some police officers get a little too gung-ho about things...someone might be injured or killed even though they didn't have the drugs.

    And let's take this a step further. What if they hide the drugs in a common area? Say...a removable wall panel used to service the plumbing. One townhouse I know of (uncle lived there) had the panel that serviced two bathrooms. You would open the panel in the unit you were servicing and you could get to their plumbing as well as the neighbors and could see the panel of the other unit. Couldn't get to it as it was screwed into the wall studs, but you could see it. It was a common space.

    How do you tell which occupant put the drugs there?

    I don't see it working.
     
  21. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    former k9 handler.

    you can't do this. you cannot just walk dogs up and down the block looking for hits. you cannot use them to search people. you can't ask the dog to smell something inside a house from the outside. drug laws and prohibition are a failure.
     

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