How many genders are there?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    We're NOT talking "normal man, or normal woman" we're talking men vs wome.
     
  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not. But YOU are.

    ...
    Looks like you kinda lost track of the debate, didn't you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
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  3. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm not
    [QUOTE="Golem, post: 1072956680, ]

    ...


    Looks like you kinda lost track of the debate, didn't you?[/QUOTE] Nope.
     
  4. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    There is only a "debate" here for confused people. Us normies here, are not confused.
     
  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sex anomalies in humans, where someone born has both biological traits to some degree, is about 1 in 2000. That's an anomaly. An aberration. Aberrations are natural, in a sense, but nature is full of aberrations, but they are aberrations.

    Now, let's not confuse 'aberration' with 'evolution'. Evolution takes hundreds of thousands of years. Aberration occurs every day.

    The 1 in 2000 is science, but declaring it as 'normal' and now we need 5 gender pronouns is a cultural thing.

    How many thousands of years did we seem fine with him/he and she/ her? Now it ain't enough because some scientist says so?

    I don't think so.

    If you are born a boy and want to be a girl, go all the way in the transformation, Pick a sex, and go all they way with it.

    But don't go half way and expect me to call you a 'they' when you have male genitals. I didn't grow up that way and I refuse this nonsense. We are not going to redesign every building with a third or fourth bathroom to accommodate this, it's ridiculous.

    "They" in the english language is plural. And that's that.

    But after 150,000 years in the evolution of language, him and her seemed to work fine. And why is that?

    Because that is reality.

    Science doesn't always get it right. It's conflating gender shades of grey with cultural implications, and it's a ticking time bomb.

    Really, and all this crap is going to kill the left because we will get blamed for it.

    It's inviting chaos. Let scientists babble on about multi genders, but keep it out of our lives which was doing just fine without it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  6. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Actually I'd say the main difference is that there isn't a single male that can get pregnant. Little hard to do that when one isn't born with ovaries.
     
  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    The mental gymnastics and the hoops that they will jump through to try to justify all of this various manners of perversion is mind-boggling
     
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  8. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much.

    Life is full of variances. No two things are exactly alike. That's what makes each and every single human on the planet unique. But we are still humans. We're not pigs just because a pig heart can be used in place of our own hearts. And nothing will ever change the fact that we are human. The same applies to sex and gender. The same applies to our brain. There's wide variances. But its still a human brain. And the fact that a female brain may be working in a male body does not change the fact that it is a male body.

    Now you can of course add a million ways to identify yourself. Zhe, They, Pe etc etc ad nauseum. But all that you are doing by doing that is adding more words than are actually necessary and adding confusion. If we ever come across aliens from outer space its going to be hard enough understanding each other. Adding "Zhe, They, Pe" to describe similar looking human beings is going to make it a million times more difficult. Hell, screw the alien analogy, we're having a hard enough time understanding each other as it is.
     
  9. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    You would think taxonomist would be sounding the alarm!
     
  10. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    So... what is a woman?

    xy born with enhanced breasts and surgically removed penis and on hormone treatment

    xx born with birth given traits usual of xx born humans

    xy born, with usual xy birth given traits

    xy born, enhanced boobs, penis, not on hormones

    xx born, on testosterone, boobs removed


    Answer? They can all be a woman, as long as they say they are.

    So.. if i feel i’m black, feel chinese... can i say it’s what i am? Why not? If it can be done with gender, why not race? See where we are heading?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  11. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    LINK: Leftists Outraged After Popular British Influencer Comes Out As ‘Transracial’ Korean | The Daily Wire

    I know, I know...its the dailywire. But shooting the messenger isn't going to work in this case.



    Get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

    And his full channel: Oli London - YouTube
     
  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have no idea what the source of that statistic is. But I'm not talking just about "sex anomalies" at birth. A person can literally develop characteristics of the other sex even in adulthood. However, the point is that the configuration of the sex organs is insufficient to explain the many and very complex aspects that make a person male or female. And, for this reason, those who wish to claim that there are only two sexes will not receive the support of science.

    "Aberration" is a very bad choice of words. Maybe it's not the most common state. But that doesn't make it less real. In fact, science has not yet managed to explain why it's uncommon (it should be more common). Or even IF it's as uncommon as we think.

    .
    Could you please provide a reference where you got this ratio? "Normal" or not, it's real. And science has show just how real it is. That it's not something learned, or a fad, or some eccentric behavior to draw attention.

    And why wouldn't we give them a pronoun? You think we're going to run out or something? If it makes people feel happy and accepted, I'm all for it. But this thread is not about pronouns. It's about explaining the science behind the many-gender concept. And new pronouns have very little to do with this thread anyway. Most transgenders who were born with male organs but consider themselves a female, to use an example, are perfectly fine with the existing pronoun "she". They would likely reject it if somebody tried to give them a new one. The matter of new pronouns is more a cultural matter, then a matter of gender.

    Almost as many as we seemed fine with dividing people into "races". Scientists don't "say so". What scientists "say" is irrelevant in science. All that is relevant is what they can prove. And scientists are unable to prove that there are only two genders.

    Studies so far seem to indicate that you don't just "want" to be a girl. Most likely you ARE a girl. In every physical sense except your sexual organs.

    That would be a problem only if you're in the habit of looking under people's skirt before you refer to them.

    Transgenders don't want a new bathroom. They are perfectly happy using the one of the gender they identify with. In fact, they would likely find it insulting if you built a bathroom for them. Like there used to be bathrooms for black people.

    So if that's your objection, you needn't worry.

    No! "They" is singular also. But this has NOTHING to do with genders or gender identity. It has been that way for many years as a pronoun used to refer to somebody you don't know if they are male or female (even a "regular" male or female) and you don't want to insult them.

    That's what they said about the Sun rotating around the Earth. All I'm saying is that you are not going to find any support to that statement in science.

    Science certainly didn't get it right when it divided the sexes into male and female. But it's the best method there is to understand reality. Not perfect. Just the best we know of. Most definitely better than "we have always been taught that..."

    Not the first time in history that science has exploded a bomb. And most definitely not the biggest explosion. The Theory of Evolution was much more explosive. As were heliocentric theories. And the invention of calculus (the publishing of "Principia") was even bigger than those.

    If the left dies because it supports science, then be prepared for the next coming of another age of darkness. Because it's not going to deny science. The left is the left because it's the political ideology that accepts reality, not as we would want it to be, but as it actually is.

    Historically, when a paradigm shift like this has occurred, there is a big uproar, then it dies down, and then everybody (except the most reactionary) accepts facts as if they had ALWAYS accepted facts.
     
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  13. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Based on your OP I’m guessing you would probably try milking a bull. Being you can’t tell gender and all
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are males who ARE born with ovaries. Which doesn't mean they can (or can't) get pregnant. But looking for simplistic forced definitions to try to cling to dogmas is not something that is acceptable in science.
     
  15. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    Male and female, everything else is human sexual responses....man, did Kinsey waste HIS time.
     
  16. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they're called hermaphrodites or intersex. And they make up 1 percent of the population. And that certainly does NOT apply to someone who was not born as such and yet still want, and insist, to be called "zhe" instead of "he" or "her". And for that reason alone the argument that you make is worthless. All these people insisting that we call them what they want to be called by and get pissed at being called "he" or "her" don't care about the science either. All they care about is their feelings. Which can change from one moment to the next. And will call themselves what they want regardless if they are scientifically something that you have talked about in the thread or not.

    And those against "zhe" "they" "pe" etc etc aren't the ones forcing definitions.

    And most people don't live in the scientific world. Most people don't go around saying Felidae whenever they refer to a certain group of cats. Or say "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation" when referring to lasers. Or percolate when referring to making coffee. If you're writing a scientific paper then fine, use those scientific words that show differences. But in everyday life they are meaningless and do nothing but make things more complicated. Needlessly complicated.
     
  17. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your whole analogy of 'paradigm shifts because of new discoveries' -- I'm not convinced that analogy applies here, because I don't see this as a paradigm shift in the sense that the shift isn't really necessary. In the case of the solar system, the new truths had to be acknowledged. The solar system has to be acknowledged, because it's is the truth and a whole new world of advances in technology are based on the new data. Here, it is not that kind of shift. How does saying there are more than two genders benefit society? It invites chaos.
    New truths about the solar system upset the religious applecart, but religion today doesn't have the all consuming control over society that it did during Galileo.

    I got the stat from somewhere, I forget, but I googled it again and this came up, which also agrees with it

    https://isna.org/faq/frequency/

    ...If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000...


    That is a scientific fact. Whether that statistic is sufficient to warrant the legalization/public acceptance of more than two genders is cultural/political.

    It wasn't an issue for some 150,000 years of language development, but now, all of the sudden it is.

    And yes, science, much of which is funded by government, and politics by association, will occasionally wade into the political/cultural realm, and whether it is science, I'm not so sure about that.

    This idea that claiming 'science' to buttress an argument that clearly has a cultural/political dimension as the end of the argument, I'm just not buying it.

    I'll look at it this way. Put it to a vote. If a majority of Americans feel it's acceptable to have more than two genders. I'll go a long with it.

    Hell, CA has a new law that allows a transgendered person to get their birth cert modified, and all of there records to change to the new gender, drivers license, etc. But, that's California. I think there are only two states that do this, now. I feel a transgendered person, ( as long as she went the full nine yards and got the operation ) should be allowed to get their driver's license changed. But, their birth cert? Not sure I agree with that one.

    Like I said, this issue is a strong one on the left, much more so than on the right, and I sincerely believe it will give the right more fodder to persuade the middle, where issues and candidates win or lose, to side with them instead of us.

    So, I say to all my liberal brethren, jump off this crazy train. It's inviting chaos. It's okay to leave the two gender thing alone given that it has worked for many millennia. Do you really want to force liberals to die on this hill, because you know darn well the right is not going to go along with it and they will kill us over it.

    Give it some thought.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    This thread is not about what anybody "wants to be called". It's about what they ARE. I'm sure that pronouns are easier for you to debate than science. But if you want to discuss more inane topics, open a thread.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  19. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's not my analogy. It's Thomas Khun's.

    What science does is explain nature. Whether nature benefits society or not is irrelevant to science.

    Look... bottom line is, as I said before, that the binary division is going away. It has disappeared from science, and it is also slowly disappearing in our culture. So just be prepared. You can be on the right or the wrong side of history. But there is no turning back.

    As for the rest... whether what science describes is convenient to the left or the right... or to the DMV.... is of very little relevance. Scientific fact is based only on reality. Not on convenience or how it benefits one political party or another. Running away from science is not going to change reality.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    When was the earth flat? When did we go from male and female to something else?
     
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And that fact based realty is there a males and there are females in our species. Always been that way. I notice you didn't answer your own question, how many genders do you believe there are. Because if not two then the alternative made up construct is unlimited, there could be unlimited "genders" by the definition you are using, as many as a person could imagine and our imaginations are limitless.

    I follow the science and the science says we are male or female, anything in between is pretending.
     
  22. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you didn't read the OP.

    I have no idea. But if there is an answer to that question, it will come from science.
     
  23. HockeyDad

    HockeyDad Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The fetish with transgenderism is a tactic of elites to attack and demolish functional culture that resists them. It is called Bioleninism and it describes the process used by elites to allow society’s genetic anomalies to force their will on the rest of civilization. Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. The Communists reveled in making people say that which they knew was not true.

    Note: the powerful people pushing this nonsense obviously don't believe it is true (just like they don't believe that Covid is dangerous to them, as evidenced by their ostentatious flaunting of the rules they force on others). They see it as it route to power and wealth. The day is coming in America that people who openly deny that men are not women will go to jail (it has already occurred in Great Britain). We have the most broken and corrupt elite in American history and I really don't know if we can stop them.
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nope I did, your point being?

    You asked the question and you don't have an answer? Science does not recognized socially engineered constructs.
     
  25. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    As I said in a previous post. There are wide variances between point A and point B. In a lot of things. But those variances does not change the underlying core truth. That one is either male, or female. There are thousands of variations of chairs. Does that change the nature of the chair? No. It doesn't. A chair is a chair is a chair. Tall chair. Small chair. Yellow chair. Green chair. Cushioned chair. Hard chair. They are ALL chairs. The underlying core truth is that its still a chair. The same applies with anything else. Brown dwarf sun to supergiant sun. And all in between....are still suns. Same with male and female. There are variances in between. But the core truth is still the same. Male or female.
     

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