Is the criminal justice system racist against African Americans?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Reasonablerob, Jul 26, 2020.

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Is the American criminal justice system racially biased against African Americans?

  1. Absolutely, irredeemably so

    11 vote(s)
    21.2%
  2. Yes to a degree

    7 vote(s)
    13.5%
  3. Unable to really say

    1 vote(s)
    1.9%
  4. On the whole no although there are exceptions

    13 vote(s)
    25.0%
  5. Definitely not, it's an excuse for black criminality

    20 vote(s)
    38.5%
  1. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    So, let's get down to the nitty gritty (and yes, I'm aware what some have claimed to be the origin of the term but personally I'm not convinced), is the American criminal justice system unfair to African Americans?

    I say no, every criminal justice survey ever published seems to suggest African Americans are more involved in violent crime than any other racial group.

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

    Equally African Americans are disproportionately affected by mental illness;

    https://minorityhealth.hhs.gov/omh/browse.aspx?lvl=4&lvlid=24
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3558787/

    It is hardly the fault of the police that they are constantly forced into violent confrontation in these circumstances.

    An argument could be made that this is due to prejudice in law enforcement but this doesn't hold water, are all the victims of crime racist liars? Even complaints against traffic stops are baseless, African Americans caught by speed cameras in proportion to those stopped by officers.

    There was the argument that mass incarceration discriminated against African Americans in the 80s and 90s, people sent to prison for possessing crack but not powder cocaine, meth etc. But those drugs were not generating the gun violence that blighted the black community in those times, doubling the murder rate (I have another poll on the subject further down the page).

    Now some people blame this on 'white supremacy' but then why do Asian/Oriental Americans do so well? Some blame poverty but the Hispanic community does better and has less violent crime even when many arrive with literally just the shirt on their back rather than those who grew in America with all the advantages it entails. Rather than poverty creating crime it surely stands to reason that crime creates poverty?

    One aspect that does disturb me is that African Americans get higher sentences for the same offences but the flipside of that is that they are more likely to have had convictions for violent crime in the past. A more disturbing aspect is 'colourism', that non-white defendants get lighter sentences;

    https://www.theroot.com/the-lighter-the-skin-the-shorter-the-prison-term-1790864659

    Then again court is a beauty contest and you can't account for aesthetics (I would be fascinated to see if black judges applied the same standards?).
     
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  2. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    On average Whites/Asian etc have more money then Blacks, so in majority of cases Whites can hire private criminal lawyers.
    It is not Black / White problem it is a problem with a justice system, where most beautiful lawyer wins.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  3. Conservative Democrat

    Conservative Democrat Well-Known Member

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    When the victims of violent crimes report on the race of their offenders, blacks are reported in numbers far out of proportion to their numbers in the U.S. population.
     
  4. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    That is true, but the complain is that judicial system is bias against blacks, so black have higher sentences on average.
     
  5. Conservative Democrat

    Conservative Democrat Well-Known Member

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    A criminal justice system that is effective for whites is insufficiently harsh for blacks. Before the civil rights movement that was understood in the United States, and especially in the South.
     
  6. Kev12345

    Kev12345 Banned

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    Honestly it goes far deeper than just justice. They have been held back in a lot of ways which has created severe poverty in most of the African American communities. When poverty becomes a problem crimes start. This is even so in white trailor parks.
    I do believe something drastic needs to be done. Throwing money into their pockets like some Democrats have suggested will not solve the problem.
    I believe bringing the communities up would eventually save those areas. Improve the schooling the libraries the boarded up homes make it a place to live again and get those kids the education they need so hopefully they wont turn to gangs and violence. That is money better spent than on a free handout. Yes it might take years and plenty of money to start slowly working but change would start happening if you give the kids more opportunities.
     
  7. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Setting aside the obvious bias in the OP...

    None of the answers is adequate.

    The justice system top to bottom and end to end is rife with systemic racism.

    Police are more likely to initiate use of force against Black persons than White in identical circumstances.
    Black people are more likely to be arrested for specific crimes than White people.
    Black people are more likely to be prosecuted for crimes than White with similar charges and backgrounds.
    Black people tend to be sentenced to longer terms than White people with similar charges and backgrounds.
    Black people are less likely to be able to meet bail conditions than White people and so are incarcerated while White people are freed on bail.

    Now people can deny the truth of this because the truth offends their personal sensibilities but these are simple facts. Sure, you can find anecdotes that appear to contradict these truths but the fact that they are anecdotal proves the truth that the Justice system is reife with systemic racism.
     
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  8. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if it is all true about racism ( I do not know how to detect it) but my opinion is if African Americans position themselves as a state withing the state, they have to have special attention from the police.
     
  9. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never really asked, but Nobody ever told me who held back those whites in the trailer parks, so maybe this is a good time to post up the question...

    Who is responsible for their failure?

    what needs to be done to punish those responsible?
     
  10. Kev12345

    Kev12345 Banned

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    Good question. One big reason is bad parenting which is a problem in all races. Or a case of a a broken family that the dead beat dad walked out of leaving the woman with kids to support working two jobs just to pay for that trailor but not having the time to unfortunately to be able to guide the kids in the right direction. If you ever notice those trailor parks also are in good school districts also which can at the very least give the kids a better chance for a decent education.
    Inner city schools are severely underfunded and to make matters worse a lot of the good teachers do not want to work in those schools due to crime which creates a horrible cycle.
     
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  11. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trailer parks & good school districts are a typical pair? Nah, I'm thinking the opposite.

    But I'd still really like to know who put them there, was there some trailer park jim crow era that isnt in the history books?
     
  12. Kev12345

    Kev12345 Banned

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    I'm not talking like 90210 area code schools. But there are good school district in primarily white neighborhoods that do have trailor parks and pretty rich neighborhoods.
     
  13. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ok course there are, but in a country with 350 mil people that's to be expected. Not sure how it is where you are, and my experience personally in the cities i've spent significant time in there is almost always a lower/middle/upper class area, and in my travels around the country where I've just made cursory observances it appears to be the norm everywhere.

    The only difference (IMO) with the inner city is that its basically just a larger "trailer" park with 10's of thousands vs a couple hundred people all concentrated in a certain area.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  14. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have that EXACTLY backwards.

    It is not Black people who create ghettos, nor is it Black people who create red lines...

    Try again.
     
  15. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Yea, but what is the next step? Create bigger ghetto? Separate government for black people?
     
  16. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe the only way we will ever get beyond this crap is to stop keeping score by race. There is one race, the human race. Realistically, I know there are a great many that have an obsession with keeping this thing going. Pardon me if I opt out. Maybe someday more will follow.
     
  17. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Think about it.

    Why are all your "solutions" apartheid related?
     
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  18. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    That is because black people are demanding their own government and their own country within United States.
     
  19. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Black people commit more violent crime so it's hardly surprising they get higher sentences?
     
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  20. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    They were looking for a stolen motorcycle. What they found was a black family driving a car with the same license plate number, but from a different state. And it ended with four children being handcuffed (youngest six years old) and laying on the pavement of a parking lot. Can you imagine this happening to a white family? A white six year old girl handcuffed and lying on the ground?
     
  21. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    What bias exactly? Black people are far more likely to violently resist arrest, they are prosecuted more due to prior violent offences etc and they have this appalling attitude that they should somehow be treated differently. Until that changes you must feel sorry for the police.
     
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  22. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Yes I could if they behaved the same way, black people should not be scared of the police (they should be afraid of other black people), the police should be afraid of black people;

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/m...ormer-new-york-city-mayor-giuliani-2020-06-17
     
  23. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    Behaved the same way? What way is that? A woman and four children driving in a car. What were they doing that warranted handcuffing four children and having them lay on a parking lot pavement?
     
  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is anything wrong with our current criminal justice system.

    Where we fail is where humans are involved in the process. As long as humans are involved, we can expect the status quo. Nothing can force a change of our individual and inherent beliefs and perceptions and responses and actions. Over long periods of time it is possible to see change but only if there is top-down consensus for those changes.
     
  25. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Because you don't see the whole story in the clip and don't know what they're suspected off, let's wait for the whole story.
     
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