Is the knowledge of good and evil, good or evil?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greatest I am, May 31, 2020.

  1. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,296
    Likes Received:
    7,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the metaphor of the tree of knowledge is all about the appearance of the self image, the construction of the mind we call the ego. The awareness that we are separate entities that exist independent of the universe. An awakening of self consciousness . We mentally became separate and different from the universe in perception.
     
    Greatest I am likes this.
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,232
    Likes Received:
    16,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think you are misunderstanding the parable.

    It's more like, they were alerted to self awareness, and becoming self aware put souls who were in heaven, in the grim reality of the world, where good and evil resides, and now must face it's consequences, such as mortality. It's stepping down from paradise into the world of mortality. i.e., a falling from grace.

    To me, that's the meaning of the parable ( and it is a parable, not a literal story).
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,472
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That certainly sounds reasonable.

    I think the full meaning has to extend somewhat deeper though, because in the end Adam felt justified in eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil dispite god's direction.

    To me, it's an indication of Adam believing he's ready to be god, to take on god's knowledge. He thinks he's ready for full knowledge as well as the capability of being judge. I'm sure there is serious academic thought about what eating that fruit demonstrates.

    I suspect that allegory could indicate important aspects of man's sinful nature - original sin. It takes serious work today for man to be at peace leaving judgement to god while working on our own behavior. And, it seems like a common thread with a number of different religions.
     
    Greatest I am likes this.
  4. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks for this.

    Reincarnation has never been a big part. Too Eastern religion for the west.

    As a Gnostic Christian, I do use Jesus' words that show he followed the Eastern esoteric/mystical traditions.

    We follow that and that is why we are the only good Christians by rejecting the genocidal Yahweh.

    Regards
    DL
     
  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,232
    Likes Received:
    16,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    I often refer to the Gospel Of Thomas, among other works. I'm not anything in particular, I just meditate.
     
  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,699
    Likes Received:
    21,100
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Seems to me that suffering and risk are necessary components of growth in the human dynamic, and if we humans were to succeed on our own (as opposed to as God's pampered, protected, ignorant pets), hardship and death became necessary to our collective experience.

    But then I'm not a Bible Literalist, and I view the expulsion from Eden as an alegorical punishment as opposed to an intended punishment. Similarly I view 'original sin' as an alegorical sin as opposed to a real one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    Greatest I am likes this.
  7. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That already put's you a cut above. Almost all sages promote fasting and meditation.

    That is how apotheosis or theosis is gained.

    Regards
    DL
     
  8. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sin and evil, or what they call the problem of evil, I do not have as I see both nature and any ideology as not in conflict.

    You might recall though that Christianity is conflicted on Original Sin.

    Christians name it a sin, then sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

    They all say they would not follow Adam, and that means they would prefer to see god's plan derailed.

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Regards
    DL
     
  9. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,699
    Likes Received:
    21,100
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What you're describing sounds to me like the growing foundational disconnect between the orthodoxy and the common perception that is slowly but steadily driving folks away from churches and toward smaller, more private, less centralized study and worship. Which is what Christianity was always meant to be, imo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
    Greatest I am likes this.
  10. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree.

    How private? Well, Jesus said to closet yourself to pray.

    How are we to gain redemption from Jesus' POV is shown with these more Gnostic Christian esoteric teachings that Rome somehow missed to take out of the gospels.

    Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.



    Regards
    DL
     
  11. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    https://www.gotquestions.org/know-good-evil.html
     
  12. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Adam was already aware that doing so was wrong,"

    Wrong is an analogy to evil.

    This indicates that the quoted statement cannot be true.

    Adam cannot know a taste without tasting of it. Adam had yet to be served by Eve.

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    God is a Creator and Savior. I believe in the christian God who used the Jewish people to bring the Messiah to the world. Allah is impersonal, Yahweh is a loving God. The Jewish people follow the law and reject the Messiah who is talked about in the old testament. The old testament mentions a second advent and mentions the Messiah will be God who will die for the sins of the world. Judaism is no different from islam in that it denies Jesus being the Creator and the Savior. People can't deny Jesus Christ so they believe lies about who he was because people hate the idea of a Savior because the idea of Savior means we are sinners and we have a sin problem.
     
  14. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Off topic.

    It was on taste and you left a bad one.

    Regards
    DL
     
  15. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    https://carm.org/tree-of-knowledge

    https://carm.org/what-is-the-origin-of-evil
     
  16. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Quoted from gotquestions.org.
    Does everyone have a "God-shaped hole"?"
    Answer: The “God-shaped hole” concept states that every person has a void in his soul/spirit/life that can only be filled by God. The “God-shaped hole” is the innate longing of the human heart for something outside itself, something transcendent, something “other.” Ecclesiastes 3:11 refers to God’s placing of "eternity in man’s heart." God made humanity for His eternal purpose, and only God can fulfill our desire for eternity. All religion is based on the innate desire to “connect” with God. This desire can only be fulfilled by God, and therefore can be likened to a “God-shaped hole.”
    The problem, though, is that humanity ignores this hole or attempts to fill it with things other than God. Jeremiah 17:9 describes the condition of our hearts: “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” Solomon reiterates the same concept: “The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live…” (Ecclesiastes 9:3). The New Testament concurs: “The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so” (Romans 8:7). Romans 1:18-22 describes humanity ignoring what can be known about God, including presumably the “God-shaped hole,” and instead worshiping anything and everything other than God.
    Sadly, too many spend their lives looking for something other than God to fill their longing for meaning—business, family, sports, etc. But in pursuing these things that are not eternal, they remain unfulfilled and wonder why their lives never seem satisfactory. There is no doubt that many people pursuing things other than God achieve a measure of “happiness” for a time. But when we consider Solomon, who had all the riches, success, esteem, and power in the world—in short, all that men seek after in this life—we see that none of it fulfilled the longing for eternity. He declared it all “vanity,” meaning that he sought after these things in vain because they did not satisfy. In the end he said, “Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole [duty] of man” (Ecclesiastes 12:13).
    Just as a square peg cannot fill a round hole, neither can the “God-shaped hole” inside each of us be filled by anyone or anything other than God. Only through a personal relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ can the “God-shaped hole” be filled and the desire for eternity fulfilled.

    This is why the God shaped hole exists. Because humanity was separated from God by sin when Adam and Eve took the apple and we all would have done what they did if we were there and that's why it's fair we are born with original sin. This separation from God by sin is why people are homesick for God and the God shaped hole exists
     
  17. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Amazing Sam's Ego

    **** off with your copy paste garbage.

    Are you being paid for advertising away from this site.

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,232
    Likes Received:
    16,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's a parable about the loss of innocence, a stepping down from eternal bliss of our native state into the tumultuous world, i.e., a fall from grace. You have to look at it poetically, not literally, otherwise it won't make sense.
     
  19. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree that literalists cannot get the wisdom the myth is trying to give us. I call it allegory or myth and not poetry.

    I agree that the yarn is showing a rite of passage.

    We agree with the Jewish take of Eden as where man was elevated and not where he fell the way Christians see it.

    Jews see what they have called Original Virtue, while Christians reversed that wisdom to Original sin.

    Jews smart. Christians -----

    Regards
    DL
     
    Patricio Da Silva likes this.
  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,232
    Likes Received:
    16,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    a number of religions have given the earth great mystic sages; judaism, ( Hasidic mystic, Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov and Jesus ) muslim ( sufi mystic Jalaluddin Rumi ) Buddhism ( Guatama Siddartha, Ramana Maharshi and the meditation mystics arising from Buddhism, the Zen masters, etc ) Taoism ( Lao Tzu ) and what has Christianity brought us? Pat Robertson? the Popes?
     
  21. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,232
    Likes Received:
    16,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's a metaphor which is, in essence, the birth of the ego, which is the moment souls lost their innocence, 'knowledge of good and evil' these are different sides of the same coin, to use another metaphor.
     
    Greatest I am likes this.
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    31,232
    Likes Received:
    16,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's a good idea, i.e., courtesy, to put quotes using the quote tags, or italicize them.

    What I do is use the quote tags responding to others and the system does this automatically quoting the member being responded to, and when I'm quoting sources, I use italics.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  23. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    6,353
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We should drink together. You made me laugh.

    Not just those vile creatures but also inquisitions, jihads and vile homophobic and misogynous garbage religions.

    Nice to see another esoteric ecumenists, if I read you right. We pick the best and discard the rest.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Patricio Da Silva likes this.

Share This Page