Made in God’s image. Yuk. Not me thanks.

First off, I cannot save you. Second, your post was argumentative, occlusive and irrational with no room for redress or appeal. And neither will I play scriptural catapult with you as if it were a sport. With that in mind, I chose to respect you by saying that your life is yours to choose to do with as you will. That is hardly moral cowardice.

A for instance of what I deem completely irrational in your post is this: You said, "Christians see Jesus as asking Christians to abdicate their responsibility for their own sins and punishments." This is not true at all. Christians see Jesus as two things imo. First in answering the demands of justice with a perfect sacrifice, something no human could ever do. And second, he is forgiving us for all the sins we have committed against him, including murdering him, which everyone does to one degree or another the entire length of their lives. This why he is adored. He not only died to bring about the recollection and salvation of mankind. But in so doing, to expressly forgive us of our trespasses....which is again something one cannot do for ones own self. And he has continued to bless us our entire lives in spite of our complete unworthiness. In this is our capture.

A second for instance from your post is this: "Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." As if to suggest that God created us sinful. It is a Kings lamentation to plumb and discover the origin of his recent and great variance and trespass against God and conscience. In fact it was his recent lust and covetousness that begat his trespass. Not his conception and birth. The Bible is filled with scripture and with history. Davids Psalm was a historical lamentation by a King, not a scriptural path to salvation exhorted by a Prophet or Disciple or by the author of salvation. And even taken at face value, as a child he knew no sin until he was much older and a King. So it stands to reason that to not know is to be innocent. David was inconsolable and sought sanctuary by ruing his own conception. You and I are not David.

 

Thanks for the great compliment. Are you an LDS?

 

There is quite a bit of prophecy and knowledge in Psalms. The ignorant often say we are not god's, yet Jehovah, as well as Jesus (Jehovah in earthly life) stated we are preparing to become god's and definitely sons of God. Psalms 82:6

 

I can always tell a fellow member because they have far more understanding than the rest of Christendom. And, like you, I can read your testimony is strong, unlike others in here.

 

Yep, and only the Gnostic Christians take that to heart and step up.

Have you heard of the Cathar Parfait?

That is part of why the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians.

Regards
DL

 

In all of my life, all my experiences, everything I think or opine or learn, the one and only thing that I know is 100 percent true, is my testimony. All else, including gospel principles, I take with faith or reason. My testimony is that our Heavenly Father lives, and the Missionaries are his laborers, called and empowered to teach the gospel and call people to repentance.

 

Sin is a matter of choice. Otherwise there would be no right or wrong, good or bad. We are neither robots nor livestock. You can also choose to reject his sacrifice. Jesus too had choice. He chose to be the savior before he was born. He chose to subjugate his will to his Father.

 

I've been looking into the book(s) of Enoch and other such curiosities which shed a bit of light on some things. For example, when the Jews went into the land of Canaan and slaughtered them all right down to the infants and livestock, according to Enoch, its because they were Nefilim- descendents of 'The Watchers' aka the 1/3 of angels that rebelled and took human wives. The 'Canaanites', according to Enoch, weren't even human, but essentially giant demonspawn that sought to corrupt humanity (and animals too, Enoch describes 'monsters' as aberations resulting from the Nefilim breeding with animals, so, like minotaurs and stuff, presumably) with their genes and eventually irradicate/replace it. Even their infant children and animals were a threat to all of creation.

Of course, the book of Enoch has three versions, all of which were precluded from the Bible by Emporer Constantine, possibly because they seemed too fantastical... But the first version, ie the oldest one, which may predate even the writing of the book of Genesis, is widely accepted by Biblical scholars as 'more likely legitimate than not'.

 

Just a couple of thoughts for you to chew on:
1. You have heard about the quote, "An act of God." Well, then something like Noah's Flood was natural.
2. In Noah's Flood, it was God that took matters into His own hands. The question is why? The answer is because he loves his spirit children whom he sends us down to earth to receive a body so that Godly evolution can take place. Without our resurrected bodies, there would be no eternal progression possible. There are times when civilizations become so wicked, there no possibility of God's spirit children to have a chance at repentance and therefore eternal life. In Old Testament times, there were times when there was no opportunity for even living the lesser law like the Law of Moses. Wickedness had consumed the people of God and the world. So, he wiped off the wickedness and started anew giving more of his spirit children the eternal opportunities like eternal marriages and Celestial Glory.
3. You error in thinking that man's ways are God's ways. Wrong...God is the ultimate law in our universe. Not you. Are you not the ultimate law in your home? Maybe your wife is co-boss. But, your children are not. Of course, liberals atheists seem to think now that there should be no authority and we should just let people do what they want to do. I bet you don't punish your children so they will reject authority when they get older. Well, not with God.

 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hardly Gnostic. The Church teaches that our potential is to become Gods and Goddesses in the Celestial Kingdom. This is confirmed in Psalms 82:6 and John 10:34. Written in John should be standard Christian doctrine since Jesus said it Himself.

 

They were created sinless, but misused their freewill in the Garden, like you do.

 

One of many nutty things Mormons believe.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/9-things-you-should-know-about-mormonism/

 

Jesus likely never existed and even if he did, the Gnostic Christians are the only decent record.

Your church is based on the supernatural and is just as big of a lie as all the fantasy based religions.

Regards
DL

 

Yet Christians sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

I do not blame you for wanting to derail Yahweh's vile satanic plan.

Without knowing the variables, A & E could not possibly make a free will choice. The words good and evil meant absolutely nothing to them.

Further, your own bible, should you ever read it, belies your notion that you have a free will.

----------

Here are the quotes should you want to get your biblical thinking correct.

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.



Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.

What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

 

There is only one true God. Why would I seek a fake?

 

Your angry aversion to a God who supposedly doesn't exist, sounds personal. Which would be an impossibility. What bad thing happened in your life to set you on this course? One thing I have learned is that it is not so much what happens in our life that determines our course, but rather how we respond to that or those catalysts, which points us one way or another.

 

There was no genocide. Were we genocidal when we nuked Japan?

 

Always interesting when those who say they don't believe in a personal God hate Him in a personal way. Very strange, I don't make hundreds of angry posts on Hindu forums even though I think them wrong. The atheist obsession with God can be explained by Jesus' statement in the NT, "I will draw all men to Myself".

 

So you're pro-life?

 

First time I've ever heard that, want to cite?

I read the Bible through every year. How can an atheist even discuss concepts such as good and evil? A dead universe doesn't care.

 

LOL, almost no serious historians believe that lie. Did Mohammed also never exist?

It does certainly show how implanted the idea of God is implanted in the human heart as the Bible says, despite how Satan has mislead many. There are differing forms of skepticism such as deism, atheism, agnosticism, etc. Does that mean they're all wrong?

 

Most are in the do not know camp, and you cannot even show that a miracle working Jesus ever existed.

Tell us though, why would you want Jesus to return and use genocide against us again?

Especially given that he said he came for the ill and not the well. You have him murdering the ill!!

Regards
DL

 

All supernatural gods are fantasy. Those who use mythos are wrong and those who use logos are likely closer to the truth.

Regards
DL

 

LOL, never heard of it, yet you lie and say Christians think something false.

Like the mass murdering atheists Mao and Stalin?

Happy to do so, but I'm off to church now.

Either that or they think it a waste of time to argue with a hateful person who has nothing but venom instead of rational arguments.

 

OK, see how that works out for you.