Mail Delays Fuel Concerns Trump is undercutting USPS ahead of voting

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by CenterField, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    (Titled abbreviated due to character count)

    "Mail Delays Fuel Concerns Trump is undercutting Postal System Ahead of Voting" - NYT

    I know people will shoot the messenger, the NYT, but this has been in the news everywhere. The NYT often puts articles under a paying firewall after the reader has read a monthly free allowance, and that would be against the rules of this sub-forum but I consulted moderators on this, who said it's fine to link to the NYT because people can clear the cache and use another browser and still get to the article (not to forget, it's the beginning of the month so the allowances are reset).

    Anyway, apparently the budget cuts are causing delivery delays and less reliable service.

    Trump's beef with the postal service apparently stems from an attempt to damage Amazon.com, and from advance claims of fraud that might give him grounds to challenge the election results if he loses, and might serve as vote suppressing strategy (on grounds that humble voters more likely to vote Democrat have more trouble displacing to precincts for lack of transportation, and would prefer to vote by mail). There is concern about his replacing of the Postmaster General with a loyalist, and the impact on an election that will go through the mail in many locations.

    There's been only one documented case of fraud related to mail-in ballots that I know: that of the North Carolina 9th Congressional District in 2018, which involved... a Republican candidate, LOL! Claims that Democrats want mail-in vote in order to commit fraud are grossly unsubstantiated partisan talking points, in my opinion. Mail-in voting has been going on in many states with no evidence of fraud (except the Republican one, above mentioned).

    Now, I ask the following, to start the debate:

    1. Isn't this move extremely unpopular? I wold assume that most Americans love to have one of the most reliable and punctual mail services in the world and have developed a friendly relationship with their mail carriers, including, cheerfully giving them Christmas bonus, greeting them, and learning their first names (at least in my neighborhood, it's like this). Many Americans also love, especially in this time of contagion concerns while shopping, the contactless Amazon deliveries to one's porch. As Trump's actions on this become clear to the population and further derail the USPS, there may be an angry backlash.

    2. Isn't this likely to backfire to a degree with Trump ending up suppressing his own voters? I seem to have heard somewhere that members of his campaign have made the point to him. The demographic group of older Americans, more likely to be more conservative and therefore to vote for Trump, may be exactly the group that fears the most going to a crowded precinct to cast a ballot in person, given that they are the ones with more underlying medical conditions that make them susceptible to the virus, unlike younger and more progressive voters who fear the virus less and may be perfectly fine with voting in person.

    Opinions?
     
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    One thing is certain, America simply must get rid of Trump. He has got to be the dumbest president in History.
     
  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The USPS financial problems are due to the congress raiding its revenue. It will be fine if they leave it alone.
     
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  4. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    The post office sucks and the problem isn't Trump and election years. The hybrid delivery system some places are using to save money by have the USPS deliver to the door is a joke. I can see online that my package sit in my local postal office for up to a week after they get it before they get around to delivering it.
     
  5. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    Democrats will be all for mail in voting, unless of course Trump wins, then it will be fraud fraud fraud for 4 more years, maybe 24 more as we elect one Trump family member after another.
     
  6. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think forcing vote by mail hands Trump an advantage and legal recourse. When no postage or pulse is required, we will see a long, drawn out legal battle. Opposing forced voting by mail in no way casts a negative light on our postal service. If people can safely select a ripe avocado at the market, they can vote in person is they choose.

    Dems abuse of power is how we ended up with Trump in the first place.
     
  7. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who says everybody can safely select a ripe avocado at the market? There's been plenty of cases of transmission in grocery stores, so many of our senior citizens and vulnerable people should actually be discouraged from shopping in grocery stores (a relative to shop for them, contactless delivery, etc.).
    Wait, seriously, do you actually think that facilitating a way for American citizens to safely vote is... abuse of power??? Really??? Silly me, I thought it was called democracy...

    While is it that it's always the Republicans who attempt to curtail the people's vote? Why are Republicans so afraid of the popular vote? Gets one thinking...
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  8. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First off, I am not a republican. For those who cannot safely vote in person, and absentee ballot should absolutely be provided.

    There is a difference between making it available and forcing everyone to vote by mail. It is absolutely an abuse of power. Why are dems afraid of people showing up in person if they choose?

    It won't make much difference which sex offender with speech problems is our next president.
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  10. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pray tell, how do you pick the ones for whom it is not safe? Have you ever realized that almost two in every three Americans have underlying medical conditions that put them at risk if they catch COVID-19? Obesity, 40% of the population. Hypertension, 100 million. And so on and so forth.

    Nobody is forcing anything. People can vote in person if they choose to do so. But why being afraid? Well, have you by any chance noticed that we are in the middle of a freaking pandemic that spreads from person to person, especially at close proximity and in indoors crowed space? And you think there is no justification for being afraid of showing up in person? Wow.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  11. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I meant the popular vote as in, the people voting. Sure, I know very well that what counts is the vote in each state, for the electoral college. Still, the people of the state, vote.
     
  12. Scamander

    Scamander Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again.

    If the President of the United States is allowed to pick and choose the head of the US Postal service, and that President is corrupt as hell, of course he is gonna install one of his cronies.

    What aspiring dictator wouldn't? It's like giving him the keys to the castle.

    If Trump has proven one thing in four years it is how absurd his powers as President are. From having a say on nominations for Supreme Court judges to choosing the head of US Postal service.

    You want separation of powers to protect American democracy? Keep the nose of the President out of crucial appointments. It should be non of his bloody business.

    You can blame Trump for being an aspiring dictator.
    But you can't blame him for abusing a Constitution that allows to be abused..

    Don't complain now about Trump suppressing votes by mail. Because he is laughing about those that believed he wasn't going to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
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  13. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What makes you think that I've ever supposed that he wasn't going to try all the vote suppressing he can manage to do?
     
  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    That isn't the meaning of popular vote. People take it to mean the total of votes across the country.
     
  15. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its simple; you don't make choices for people. They get to decide for themselves with no interference from the government. Do you know how 2/3 of our population got sick? Our government forces you and I to subsidize most of what is making and keeping people sick. That illness created by our government is being used to gain even more power. Healthcare/single payer/obamacare/ etc. would not be a political issue if it weren't for the record levels of illness.


    I live in CA and we already received notification that all voters will receive a mail in ballot. No postage or pulse required!
     
  16. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, sure, poor choice of words.
     
  17. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's been working fine in Oregon for several years.
     
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  18. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you admit there is no reason for change?
     
  19. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, there is a reason: the pandemic. Duh.

    And we all know what's behind this. Trump is afraid he will lose... so he is preparing a preemptive way to contest the result of the election.
     
  20. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Are you paying for faster shipping?
     
  21. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Only if you are a currently registered voter. Why did you feel the need to leave out something so basic? You can no more vote in person than you can by mail if you are not a currently registered voter. If you want to express an objection, make it an honest one.
     
  22. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason that every state cannot do as Oregon and now California are doing.
     
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  23. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Nope but that has nothing to do with how long a package needs to sit before delivered when not 5 miles from my house.
     
  24. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    1) Postage SHOULDN'T be required as that would be the equivalent of a poll tax.
    2) The whole "dead people vote" thing is nonsense. Your signature gets checked when you vote by mail, just like it does when you vote in person.
     
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  25. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    Depends on what the merchant's estimated arrival date is and if faster shipping is available. If the package arrived within the timeframe advertised, you received the service you paid for.
     

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