MASKS- many opinions, swiss-cheese viewpoints from "experts".

Masks- Lots of opinions.... lot of holes in them. Here's one, I personally understand well.
It IS affecting the death rate. Some bit of background knowledge is needed to understand.

The extent of facial masking is near universal at this point. While it is true that wearing a mask reduces the risk your your transmitting or acquiring the Covid virus- and there are a wide variety of opinions regarding the effectiveness of both- there are other considerations that are largely ignored by all.

Respiration is primarily an exchange of blood gasses, and these gasses want to equalize. Thus when you inhale fresh air, the quantity of oxygen is normally near 20%, the quantity of CO2 is very low.
Blood in the lungs is circulating through alveoli, special cells with thin walls which allow gasses to pass in or out of the blood. Oxygen is absorbed by the blood, CO2 is transferred from blood into the air in your lungs to be discharged. It's important to understand what these gasses do.

Oxygen provides the capacity for your body to burn fuel and maintain energy. CO2 is an exhaust gas, being disposed of. The quality of the exchanges relate to the differences in those gas levels between the blood and the respiratory air in the lungs. If you feel a need to breath, the trigger is not the shortage of Oxygen- but the excess level of CO2 in the blood. If you fail to dispose of CO2 adequately, you will be short of breath. IF you fail to absorb oxygen sufficiently, you will be short of energy and organ function capacity.

When you re-breathe a portion of the same air you just exhaled (as you do with a mask) the oxygen level is lower, and the CO2 level is higher. Thus, the respiratory cycle is reduced in efficiency, and your body is to some extent being asphyxiated in a limited fashion. In a young person, this is not sufficient to create problems. In an elderly person, or anyone who's respiratory functions are already marginal- it can be quite significant, even though the percentage in change may be small.

Breathing in a mask alters the quality of respiratory exchange in everyone- but the older or less fit the person, the greater than impairment is.

Thus... Masks on people who may be in care facilities such as nursing homes and hospitals DO constitute direct health risks. The same is true for any person with reduced respiratory efficiency, such as those with COPD or who may have history of lung issues- known or not.

Point is- Everything we do has it's downsides. When “experts” fail to consider or even mention them, they are still in effect- but how is the average citizen supposed to know?

I'm not a doctor or scientist- but I know these things because of extensive history teaching diving, including teaching people how to understand, manage and extend respiration for extended breath holds. However- EVERY physician should understand this process.

It would appear nobody told New York's DeBlasio went he send elderly Covid patients to nursing homes; and we have far too many politicians suffering from extreme myopia- and killing people because of it.

 

My mother is in a nursing home - she is required to wear a mask in shared spaces. She doesn't like it, so she generally stays in her room. The same applies to people with respiratory inefficiencies - as they are in the high risk category, they really shouldn't be out in crowds, should they?

 

Debunked. You can actually wear six face masks without your oxygen saturation levels from being affected.

 

You're assuming that people with respiratory problems are wearing a mask 24 hrs a day. This is bull crap. We are talking about
wearing a mask in public spaces or when social distancing is impossible. For most of the people with respiratory problems that
might be for a couple of hours a day, if that.

What you are arguing for is for the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

 

Obviously not; they are at higher risk anyway- but we need to recognize that and not make it worse. The question of respiratory efficiency is individual, but is far more critical for the elderly. I think what would be excellent for such people would be fresh air and sunshine with safe distancing from others. Many nursing homes are on large grounds and could do this easily, particularly with those who have some mobility or wheelchair capacity. Sounds like they aren't requiring her to wear one in her room- but some places have. The quality of life is very important to everyone; I hope you see her frequently and help her remember all the good times of her life.

 

Unfortunately, I live almost 1500 miles away from her. So the best I can do is emails that the staff read to her. She no longer knows how to use a phone or a tv remote - so she's got a very isolated existence.

 

And that might be true if you were 25. Try it at 80 with your lungs already running at marginal capacity.
There are multiple factors here- I directed the message towards the people who ARE already dealing with marginal situations, not this years olympic athletes.

 

If face masks reduce oxygen levels, then even for a super-healthy person, we would still see a decrease in oxygen levels. It wouldn't be dangerous but we would still see it.

 

If your lungs are already at marginal capacity, then you are going to already be on portable oxygen machines and the nose tubes would
fit UNDER the masks - so the mask would have zero impact on oxygen levels.

Would like to change the goalpost again?

 

NO, I am not. I'm simply making the point that an elderly person going to the grocery store for a half-hour in a mask DOES experience a problem- and there are times when a small percentage of loss in respiratory efficiency becomes the critical point. Nor an I suggesting people not wear masks- I'm simply making people aware of a risk that nobody seems willing to notice, so it and be taken into consideration.
Sorry that offends you. Not surprised, of course.

 

You pretend "nobody notices" - while doctors and caregivers to elderly are acutely aware of these limitations and have been since the start of the crisis. Just because it isn't front page news with the latest on the Kardashians doesn't mean that "nobody notices."

My dad was on portable oxygen machines for 15 years - believe me, we monitored what was happening in the environment
around him during the entire time. When forest fires were lowing the air quality, he modified his behavior. When flu season hit, he modified his behavior. Didn't mean he wasn't still active - just kept things in mind. He did wear a mask even back then in some crowded areas, and the air tubes fit under the mask - so no impact.

 

So long as the quantity of O2 is available, the blood is going to take on all it can in the relative exposure. It is the depth end exchange of air that makes the difference. If a healthy person with deep respiration cycles starts breathing through a 24" tube, he is re-breathing the same air, each time lowering the O2 available- and you would see those O2 levels falling hard. People who breathe shallowly are the ones exposed to this issue. That is generally elderly, or people whose lung efficiency is poor such as COPD patients. This is why many people use O2 support- they are unable to get sufficient oxygen in their normal respiration, and need supplemental. Anything that restricts exchange affects the result- however, that is virtually un-noticed in the average person. This is an observation that does not apply to all; it applies to those with respiratory impairments or limitations.

 

Good for him- good that common sense was still in common use. Of course, you have seen a massive amount of argument over masks..... but not a word on the subject of this post. That's why it's there, so more people are aware of it. There are crazy times, and I doubt even you would argue that.

 

Then use a friggin face shield over your oxygen setup ( which you obviously would need)

just stop

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...n-the-coronavirus-covid-19-news-forum.569996/

 

An elderly person with that much of a respiratory problem likely isn’t healthy enough to go to grocery store in the first place. Likely they either have someone shop for them or get it delivered. My mother lives in an over 55 complex and the women she hangs out with are in their late 80s and early 90s and none of them have any issue whatsoever with wearing masks.

 

Doctors and nurses in acute care and operating rooms always wear masks, so they if anyone should be thoroughly familiar with them

 

Masks make it harder to breathe.

Vote Democrat 2020

 

If masks work so good I have a question for those who push them:

If they work so well, why have 400,000 health care workers, who arguably wear masks much more than any of us ever could hope to, have contracted Covid19 with at least 600 HC workers dying from it? If the masks did ANYTHING this group of people would have a LOWER than average rate of infection, not much much higher.

 

I'll wear 8 just to be safe and invincible

 

Because they are exposed to the virus at a much higher rate than the general public. There have also been numerous reports on inadequate supplies of PPEs with healthcare workers having to use the same equipment multiple times over. It certainly doesn’t help to keep using equipment that has been exposed to the virus.

 

Well sure, if you have something like failing lungs or you’re 100 yr old. Otherwise...nonsense.

 

Masks: Make breathing harder

In other news: Water is wet

 

Nah...not really. But don’t let me stop you from whining about it

 

Is it possible you're breathing through the wrong orifice? Thanks!