Mass shootings are a price we pay for freedom and there is nothing we can do about them.

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Apr 19, 2021.

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Mass shootings are a price we pay for freedom and there is nothing we can do about them.

  1. I agree

    10 vote(s)
    30.3%
  2. I disagree

    23 vote(s)
    69.7%
  1. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Do you agree with this statement?
     
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  2. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I believe that we can enact common sense gun legislation to reduce mass shootings.

    In study after study after study, the number one main driver that allows mass shootings to occur in this country vrs others, is easy access to firearms.
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree. I don't believe more restrictions on guns will prevent the violently insane from getting guns... but I do believe we can do a lot more to help the mentally ill avoid becoming violent criminals. This would reduce not only 'gun violence', but violence in general, which should be the real goal.

    It would also help if we stopped the war on drugs. Much violence, and especially 'gun violence' is a result of criminal organizations fighting to control the black market for drugs. This doesn't happen when the market is open and free.

    People also need to stop relying on the authorities to protect them. Clearly they cant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  4. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. We have countless laws that impede on our "freedoms" and we accept them in order to be part of society. There is no reason why we can't amend gun laws other than the 2As lose their minds over what they perceive as a threat to their freedoms.
     
  5. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

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    Remove all the current restrictions on the second amendment and encourage anyone and everyone to carry a firearm. Drastic reduction in mass shootings.
     
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  6. dharbert

    dharbert Well-Known Member

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    No amount of guns laws or restrictions will do anything. More people need to carry. If you have a gun and you enter a store with the intent to rob it, and there are 50 other people in there who are also armed and willing to end your life in an instant, are you going to go ahead and rob that store? Probably not...
     
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  7. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    What we can is stop the mindless obsession wiht “assault weapons”, high-cap magazines, etc. and put more evident into identifying people who are on the verge and going off the rails. This is why I made a point on the Mass Shooting thread; We’ve have story after story of shooters clearly displaying serious signals that he was about to go ballistic. The indianapolis cops took a shotgun away from Hole, yet his record wasn’t flagged in anyway that would have prevented him from buying two AR’s HIS MOM TOLD THE COPS he was dangerous - and they did . . .? The Majorie Stoneham Parkman guy had enough red flags to alert a blind man.
    We also need to figure out how to curtain gang violence; not an easy task I’ll grant. It seems we can’t go a month without hearing about an innocent bystander being injured or killed by stray gunfire.

    Point is, our problem is not honest gun owners, even those that buy their guns at a gun show; no number of new obstructions for them will budge the numbers.
     
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  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I keep hearing that the more citizens that have guns, the less shootings we should see. Or at least the number of those killed will be less. Because the good guy with a gun will kill the bad guy with a gun sooner.

    So, we should actually have a booth on street corners with a loaded gun inside. Similar to the days of phone booths.
    That way, when there is an active shooter, a good guy can go get the gun and end the shooting.
     
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  9. Big Richard

    Big Richard Banned

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    No, no , no, no, no..........everyone who wishes to carry should carry. I don’t want someone else’s gun, I want the gun that I carry, that I train with, that I know.
     
  10. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Criminals would get there first. All they would need to do is take that weapon and the good guy can't get it.

    The concern I have with everybody having a weapon is it imparts too much power. Some people tend to feel invincible and that leads to unnecessary confrontations and conflicts. Granted, the mature and responsible gun owners don't act this way but there are enough of the first type to make it a threat to free society.

    It takes cops an average 5-10 minutes to respond to a 911 call and that's assuming the person(s) in jeopardy are able to call them. I hate, hate, hate the mass shootings we are hearing about almost every day. I am just not convinced that means we need to disarm the law-abiding citizens as we know the criminals and would-be-criminals have no intentions of relinquishing their weapons.
     
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  11. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I wrote my previous reply before reading this post of yours. I didn't intend to be redundant.

    The thing that sticks out for me about mass shooters is...

    1. They seem to have easy access to guns (usually a law-abiding citizen has them), and
    2. They lie on the screening questionnaire when applying for a weapon.

    Right out the box...the questionnaires are silly. Nobody is going to talk themselves out of not being approved by being honest. The two boys that just killed their parents, siblings and grandmother post on social media about how ridiculously easy it was to obtain weapons.

    So, the question isn't gun ownership, per se. They are...

    1. How do we regulate gun ownership in such a way that people are responsible when their weapons are used in a killing? This isn't far-fetched as we already do this vehicle ownership. If you sell your car to somebody and don't transfer the title, you are responsible for any accidents they have in that vehicle.

    Why are gun owners NOT being held responsible when their legally obtained weapons and security of those weapons are taken and used in mass shootings?

    2. Just do away with the questionnaires. They are ridiculous and not useful tools for screening out "about to be unhinged" people.

    How about having a system in which ALL encounters with law enforcement involving a weapon and/or psychiatric intervention and psychiatric care (something more substantial that just seeing a therapist) are logged somewhere? Yes, we have to figure out how to do that while obeying HIPPA laws but it shouldn't be impossible.

    The other question that crossed my mind is "the good guy with the gun" scenario. I don't know if this is tracked anywhere but I'm curious how any "good guys" are willing to step up and save others in a threatening situation. Sure, we would all do it to protect ourselves, our loved ones and property but how many would take on a robber in a convenience store? Or somebody on a rampage in a school? Clearly, it would depend on the individual and their own moral codes and valuation of the other innocent people involved in such a scenario.

    There are no easy answers but it's beyond clear that we need to start coming up with something. We can't just become "okay" with people going off the deep end and killing a bunch of people for reasons that only exist in their tortured minds.
     
  12. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    For clarity the good guys wear silver badges and the bad guys have red and yellow badges, like a warning. Only good guys with silver badges can grab the guns.
     
  13. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fully agree first para, partially for the second.

    There are so many semi-automatics and handguns out there that restrictive legislation won't work. You would have had to nip it in the bud decades ago ( as we did in Australia recently)
     
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  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Australia also has far better mental health systems than the US, both in regard to access and in regard to respecting the rights and dignities of the mentally ill, which goes a long way toward the afflicted seeking help before their condition leads them to violence.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  15. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, not that there are not excellent services in the US (my line of work). It's just they are not universally accessible.
     
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  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you can reduce them, never eliminate them - doesn't mean you don't try

    Republican events are gun free zones for a reason
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  17. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    All guys with silver badges aren't good guys.

    Who has red and yellow badges?
     
  18. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    What “questionnaires” are you talking about? There is a federal form that has to be submitted.
     
  19. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    FOID application.
     
  20. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bad guys. Please bear in mind this is a theoretical model :ashamed:
     
  21. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    10-4.
     
  22. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I do disagree because in my not-so-humble-opinion there is PLENTY we could do about it.

    For a start, we need to have much more harsh, long-term punishment for all crimes committed with firearms. In my view, the 'slap-on-the-wrist' bullshit should end, and prison sentences in ESPECIALLY unpleasant places would be common for periods of at least a FULL ten years when firearms are used -- and maybe a lot more! I'd also bring back capital punishment and use it routinely and swiftly when someone kills someone else while committing a crime, for no good reason at all.... Hint: Yes, self-defense is, and always will be, "a good reason"!

    Next, firearm possession would be flatly forbidden for anyone who has ever been convicted any felony, any misdemeanor involving violence, anyone undergoing psychiatric treatment, or anyone who is being prescribed certain kinds of pharmaceutical drugs.

    Anyone trying to avoid compliance with these laws governing illegal possession of firearms would be sent to prison as described in the first paragraph. No mercy, no time-off-for-good-behavior, and no parole -- just straight, 'zero-tolerance' enforcement of laws enacted to enable and augment real public safety.

    With my plan, there'd be plenty of pissing-and-moaning by many people, Left and Right, but I'll damned well bet that there'd be a hell of a lot less crime involving firearms....
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  23. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well it's demonstrably false given there are loads of places with no less freedom than the US by any reasonable measure which don't have anything like the extent of mass shootings.

    I do think there is too much focus on freedom and rights around guns in the US and not enough consideration given to culture and general social behaviour. It isn't just the laws which make guns easily accessible to people who misuse them, how people choose to act within the scope and context of those laws matter too.
     
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  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I still mean you carry your own.
    But many don't carry their own.
    This is for anyone closest to be able to grab a gun and shoot a bad guy. If you have your own, shoot away, by all means.
     
  25. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Don't the bad guys likely have a weapon already?
    While many good guys/people just don't see a need to carry. But now will have access in a needed situation.
     

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