Maybe the bad news is good news

Discussion in 'Science' started by (original)late, May 26, 2020.

  1. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Astounding! Lol

    China is a rogue communist nation that breaks rules and steals.

    If they were a democracy and just practicing capitalism, they could be trusted. Maybe.

    I can't trust the CCP. Not with their history as a govt.

    They tell serious lies and play dirty.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The USA is a rogue nation...that breaks rules

    The democracy in the US is under great threat today

    The US tells serious lies and plays dirty

    I don't trust Trump data any more than I trust China data...
     
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  3. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    The key issue is that the moon is a lot closer to Earth than most Asteroids. That means any elements or volatiles you extract from an asteroid have to be inserted into a trajectory that will put them in a near Earth Orbit. That takes time and energy. The Moon on the other hand is already in a near Earth Orbit and has useful concentration of metals in its deeper craters. It also takes very little energy to accelerate mass of its surface and Earthwards. So depending on your scale of production /infrastructure and where in the solar system it is it located initially at least the moon by be the more economic choice.

    Another plus is that if you are mining on the moon you can keep personnel numbers to a minimum. Its close enough to Earth that a lot of heavy equipment could be tele-operated from Earthside. And those jobs that have to be done hands on? Well a 3 month 'work shift' Luna side with a 3 day trip at either end getting to and from home home isn't too onerous. Plus there is some gravity to help minimize the health impacts of prolonged weightlessness.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    If the materials potentially acquired from the Moon are not essential to human life on Earth, then any mining operations will be private ventures. Guessing the cost of doing business by sourcing materials from the Moon won't be viable? Yes some materials might be present, and yes those materials can be mined and transported...but does it truly make any sense?
     
  5. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    For the foreseeable future I would suggest its only viable for use in building stuff in Earth Orbit - in other words spaced based industry near Earth. The cost per kilogram of mining and refining X mineral on the Moon would have to be cheaper (or close to) than doing the same on Earth plus launch costs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the right is set against protecting from viruses. The right is simply fighting against the politicization of that protection.
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The way you protect against the politicization is to point to the science - a dispassionate source that is based in evidence alone.

    The right wing still lauds Trump, Hannity, Rushbo, Carlson, and the governors who consistently base their statements on COVID and policy PURELY in partisan objectives.

    Not once have we seen these individuals propose policy that has shown success in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, or in Europe where their success is startling compared to our failure.

    We don't even see them promoting the plan for opening America that is on whitehouse.gov.
     
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes cost is not the only issue. When I look at the ISS, detailing every piece of material and hardware, etc. it's amazing how we got all that stuff into space and assembled it into a fully-functioning ISS...
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    And you think the government epidemiologists are dispassionate. I don't have time to write a book here but they are agenda driven and political.

    Yes we have already established that the whole virus issue is rife with politics.

    Our real failure was fighting a crisis with another crisis. This virus is worse than the typical seasonal flu but not bad enough to destroy the country over.

    Conservatives understand that the closure should never have happened so the correct approach is to open immediately and completely. Fight the virus without two hands tied behind our back.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I see absolutely zero evidence of that. And , those looking into this are not just from America. It's a wide wide world out there. And, US epidemiological work is not particularly done by government employees.
    Let's not make that worse - as those I mentioned have done.

    In part, we can do that by being better about sources of information.
    What we have done has kept the death count to 130,000 Amerians and rising.

    That is NOT an indication of what would have happened if we had not take action.

    Even with our action, we saw what it was like in NY and NJ. And, we see from FL and other states that there was nothing special about NY and NJ other than that got hit first - from COVID19 coming here from EUROPE!
    You are the one proposing total surrender to COVID.

    We see what that has done for FL, AZ, TX and many other places.

    What's happening there is NOT "fight the virus without two hands tied bhind our back". It is "allow COVID to run rampant without resistance".
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  11. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    You really believe this to be true?

    1) The CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.

    2) Current US death toll from COVID 135,000 and rising.

    3) Estimated total number of combat fatalities suffered by US forces during Word War 11? 416,000

    I assume when you say 'conservatives understand' you mean conservatives who haven't lot anyone they care about to the virus understand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Yes I forgot the incredibly corrupt WHO. It is the epidemiological orders that are done by government employees.

    The information has been pretty faulty in my view. It would be good to get something meaningful.

    Yes I believe what I wrote. The reaction to the virus has been political. The crisis was attacked by creating a second crisis. I don't accept the numbers but I don't have the energy to tell you why. It takes more typing that up to right now. So let's just say we disagree.
     
  13. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    I was having a tough time whether to call that crazy, or fiction.

    So I settled for batsh*t crazy fiction.

    Trump's reaction has been political. He lacks the competence to do what so many other countries did, and bend the curve down. not far from zero.

    I've gone over the details of the administrations many failures many times.

    We could have done a LOT better, and we will once he's gone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    We could have done much better by not forcing people to close their businesses.
     
  15. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    You've got that instinct for making a bad situation worse that Trump has.

    Remember when flyover country was all snooty about how NY was getting hammered by the virus?

    Of course you do.

    Guess who's snooty now?
     
  16. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea.
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Contact between members of the public is clearly the way viruses spread among humans.

    So, your suggestion needs some serious 'splain'n.
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to explain. We could fight the virus the way we are now while businesses were open. We would only have had to deal with one crisis.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't even know what that means.

    The way you fight contagious diseseases for which we have no vaccines is to limit contact by restricting travel and shutting down human to human contact.

    And, I'd point out that Trump was STRONGLY opposed to OSHA/CDC recommendatins for protecting workers in businesss that he believed actually have to remain open.

    The result is that one could see the explosions of COVID around businesses like meat packing plants.

    Every other open business would contribute to such explosions - as do open beaches, political rallies, etc.
     
  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Common sense tells me we can do a better job fighting one crisis than two of them simultaneously. I have no idea what it tells you. Our supermarket which has been open all along has had only one infection in all those months. It can be done.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You say it CAN be done. Experts strongly disagree with you. So, I think you need to do more in the way of specifying your approach and demonstrating reasons for acceptin it.

    Are you going to claim that meat packing plants have presented no problems?

    How would YOUR plan have prevented what has happened in AZ, FL, TX and the many other places that are in serious trouble today?
     
  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I strongly disagree with the experts. Now we are even.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    LOL.

    No, you claim there is another way.

    But, you have presented no other way.

    I'd point out Europe presented another way - a way based on science and expert opinion.

    And, THEIR method worked while ours is just plain failing.

    So, they are safely opening their economy while we watch the Trump plan "at work" in FL, AZ, TX.

    And, I don't believe you have a plan better than the "Trump plan".
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I shouldn't have to tell you this but the plan would be to fight the virus without beating up the economy. Your experts know how to do that. Ask them for a plan.
     
  25. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The root problem is PEOPLE! It's not about opening or closing businesses. It's about too many people who are incapable of masking and social distancing. How stupid is it to have the airlines booked full now, traveling to every city in the US, and NOT wearing masks or social distancing? Remember that perhaps 70%+ of Americans ARE NOT immune to Covid, that there is no known cure for Covid, and that Covid's primary task is to find new hosts! IMO we have a very long way to go...
     
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