Minimum wage earners can't afford to live anywhere in America

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by kazenatsu, Jul 15, 2021.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in America

    Time to cut off illegal and low-skill immigration?

    A huge segment of the American workforce earns minimum wage or close to minimum wage.

    28% of the workforce earns less than $15 per hour.
    Just over 50% of American workers earn less than $20 per hour.
    According to one study, 44% of U.S. adult workers are employed in the type of jobs that typically have median annual wages of $18,000.
    Most of these low wage workers were in their prime working years, 25 to 54 years old.​


    Continuing to add more people is just going to make the nation overflow with poverty.

    There are already housing shortages in many areas. Too many people in one area push housing prices up, especially leading to severe shortages of the more affordable housing options.

    Hasn't it been repeatedly stated over and over again that the main reason for letting in these immigrants is so they can do the low paid work that supposedly "Americans don't want to do"?
    Well I think there's going to be a big problem when HALF of these jobs in the economy are "jobs Americans don't want to do", supposedly. Things are going to start resembling the Third World conditions in many Latin American countries a lot more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    In 2017, 80.4 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 542,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.

    Of the 542,000 above, how many live in low cost-of-living areas, how many are students, how many are part time, etc.? All of which justify low wages.

    The median wage is ~$34,000/year or about $16.35/hour. 50% of the workforce earns $16.35/hour or less.

    Here's a fact; if Americans did all the jobs that immigrants come to the US to do, there would be no jobs for the immigrants. But the opposite is true; Americans refuse to do most of this work therefore immigrants find jobs.

    Back in 1960 the minimum wage was $1/hour. Full time at MW provided about $160/month in gross income. Even then no one could pay rent, own a car, take care of medical issues, and put food on the table for $160 let alone provide for a family. Minimum wage has never been a solution to anything other than protecting workers from the most egregious employers...
     
  3. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

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    Saying it again and again does not make it true.

    Citizens won't do the work for the money offered is more truthful.

    Certain members of society want a permanent slave class. Socialism and rampant inflation are ways to make that happen.
     
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  4. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    That is absolute BS.... YOur comparing apples and oranges to pears. 16.35 / hour is a TRASH wage anyway. So your proof is nothing. 16.35 was made by me as an electrician in 1986. Today, that is still the starting wage for any new electrician. Do you think Inflation has happened ? Or do you go by the FED LIE of 1% a year for 40 years. Amazing how OBTUSE so many Americans are watching garbage news, and pulling garbage stats out their ass.
    You should be able to pay rent, own a car, and a phone. Plus put food on the table with a full time job. period...

    And the immigrants come here broke, of course they work hard. go to the 3rd generation and they too want more. No one should have to bust their ass to earn a living. ****ing education here... man!
     
  5. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    Exactly ! I remember when that BS started, then came here to Florida and orange pickers.... The Grove owners flew around in helicopters, receive free money from the government, then complained about wages. Greedy BIG SUGAR led the way. Fanjuls from Cuba... Obviously GLOBALIST Religion... whom would have thunk it ?
     
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  6. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Inflating wages is part of the process of monetizing the national debt, be it debt acquired in the Great War on Evil-Doers, or debt acquired by "Covid Relief".
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I provided facts while you provided diatribe...
     
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  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I totally agree you should be able to, but that is simply not the same argument for raising the minimum wage, which you perhaps seem to be confused about.

    If the problem is that something is wrong with the economy, then trying to impose what you want through a minimum wage would not be a practical solution.

    In other words, you might be trying to address the symptom rather than the cause.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
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  9. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Pretend you're a small business owner and you have 30 employees all earning minimum wage of $7.25/hour. And you are forced to increase all wages to say $15.00/hour. 30 employees (*) $7.75/hour increase (=) $232.50/hour (*) 40 hours (=) $9300.00/week or $40,300/month in increased pay due to forcing a $15/hour minimum wage.

    Where will you get $40,300 each month to pay higher wages?

    And, $15/hour is laughable in all of the high cost-of-living metropolitan areas. Therefore, a federal minimum wage is not an answer to anything. If you truly want a minimum wage to provide a 'living wage' it must be calculated at the local cost-of-living area...
     
  10. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for presenting these statistics. Often people like me are blind to these numbers. I work in a profession where we pay a starting wage to new college graduates of $65K+ and to be honest we are probably middle of the road for wages. We try to attract and retain workers with our benefits and working environment and our dedication to work life balance.

    Have you seen any studies as to why people choose to work these type of jobs? Why they do not seek additional education, training, skills or learn a trade? Is it because the cost of education is too high? Maybe the left has a point and we need to make higher education and trades free. Do we need more counselors in schools to teach people career choices at an earlier age? My parents always instilled the need to either get an education or learn a trade. Is it because they are not getting the right advice from home?
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we keep moving everyone up, we will have to keep bringing in impoverished immigrants from other parts of the world to do the low lever stuff. That can't continue. It only takes a little thought and common sense to realize that's not sustainable in the long term. Eventually the higher level jobs will start becoming saturated, and population growth rate would increase beyond the bounds of what the economy can handle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  12. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Is the alternative to bringing in immigrants to pay local workers more. The problem with that is it will cause inflation and people will blame the party in charge for causing higher prices. The same thing happen when Trump imposed tariffs on Chinese goods. In theory that should have led to a price increase equal to or more than the tariff. You can argue that there are other factors like alternative sources and Chinese currency manipulation could mitigate it but prices definitely went up for many goods especially on goods like electronics where the cost to build the infrastructure in other low wage countries is high and the transition is a long term process.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or... is this time for minimum wage earners to join together and cooperate in film production cooperatives and companies where they take their willingness to express their opinions on controversial topics and turn this film production cooperative into a News Channel that takes over from CNN, Fox and all BigMedia?

    Actors playing the role of minimum wage earners in America could potentially greatly increase the value of their work by having a part time job as a reality film actor or actress?????


    https://coady.stfx.ca/collection/th...h-movement/rt-rev-dr-moses-m-coady-1882-1959/

     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, it is true that higher wages lead to higher prices. However, when this happens usually wages increase by a percentage greater than that of the price increases.
    This is especially true if we are talking about adding to wages within the country's economy that otherwise would have not been spent there, and spent in another country.

    This is one of the reasons why rising wages is a little bit of a problematic way to deal with inflation. What I mean is if you have a certain amount of inflation, caused by something else, and then wage levels rise to be equal with that level of inflation, then that will end up causing some more inflation, and then wages will have to rise even a little more to meet it.
    This of course doesn't go on forever, but will establish some equilibrium point after a short period of time.

    You can try to look at this mathematically and that may help understand the concept of what is going on here.

    first inflation + inflation caused by wages = final inflation
    final inflation (x) a certain constant = inflation caused by wages

    Then you can use some linear algebra and substitution

    The phenomena of what is going on is also similar to the infinite sum theorem, where wage increases keep leading to price increases, which keep leading to more wage increases, but incrementally less and less, until they establish themselves moving towards some final stable point.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
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  15. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that the problem though. Given the current political environment in the country it would be extremely difficult to raise all people to a livable wage. The democrats are trying to get a $15 minimum wage over a period of years. Based on the stats you provided it seems to imply a $15 minimum wage is not enough. If the minimum wage was to be set higher it would led to inflation and that would be political suicide. Even if the party was to not bother with setting minimum wage and enacted policy such as eliminating low wage immigration it would lead to higher wages and to inflation. Look at all the flack Biden is receiving about inflation and very little of it is even directly his fault. Do you see a political solution as being feasible given the current political climate. I think if either party was going to do this the other side will jump on the inflation caused and use it to spark outrage among their base.
     
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  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's say that for every $2 in wage increases it leads to $1 in price increases.

    If you start inflation off at 4%, then the additional inflation caused by wage increases would also be 4%, leading to a final 8% total inflation rate with an 8% increase in wages.

    (1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 etc) times the original 4% will be the additional increase
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
  17. The Last American

    The Last American Newly Registered

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    It just cost me $50 to fill up a Honda!

    Thank GOD we don't have a President that tweets mean things anymore, huh?
     
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  18. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    That's an unqualified statement that can easily be proven false.

    There are more than 365 separate economies within the US and the Cost-of-Living in each of them varies greatly.

    Your own government says so.

    Using your own government's data to prove how you couldn't possibly more wrong than you are, let's say you and I apply for HUD Section 8 housing benefits so that tax-payers will subsidize our rent.

    You get $1,401/month in Social Security Retirement Benefits.

    I get a Social Security Retirement Benefit of $2,788/month, plus a pension of $1,878/month, for a total of $4,666/month.

    HUD denies your claim for Section 8 benefits on the basis that you earn way too much freaking money.


    HUD approves my claim for Section 8 benefits because I don't earn enough money.

    Let us review again: $1,401 is too much money, while $4,666 is not enough money. We can quantify those extremes in terms of wage rates:

    $26.92/hour - $6.93/hour = $19.99/hour

    That is how wildly the Cost-of-Living varies across America.

    Let's see how smart you really are.

    An IT worker in Cincinnati (OH) earns $44,000/year.

    The same IT work in White Plains (NJ) $100,000/year

    Which one earns more money, and how much more do they earn?

    "Should" is part of Is/Ought Logical Fallacy continuum, so you have failed.
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Metropolitan areas are developed from the center moving out. Over time this area becomes 100% developed. Once there is finite housing, demand increases, and so does the prices...mostly perpetrated by those earning comfortable incomes. The median wage and below earner gets squeezed out! This is a no-win scenario for average workers!

    There is no government solution for this. Increasing minimum wages or other compensation issues will never solve anything. Basically these high cost-of-living areas separate the haves from the have-nots.

    IMO one solution is for local governments to mandate some minimum percentage of affordable housing development. I'll pick a number of 40%...meaning all housing within a given metropolitan area must include a minimum of 40% affordable housing development. Affordable housing means anyone earning median wage or below can qualify for some type of housing. All of these would be a partnership between private and government and managed as true non-profit entities.

    Unfortunately few or no cities have mandated 40% affordable housing developed in their city planning, and trying to force 40% affordable housing into already developed areas is almost impossible.

    Affordable housing for everyone is a critical issue yet few or no politicians have the cahones to solve the problem...
     
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The scary thing is that you think Biden had something to do with gas prices going up.
     
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  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Back to the minimum wage......

    upload_2021-10-29_8-13-46.png
     
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  22. The Last American

    The Last American Newly Registered

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    The frightening thing is, you don't. Never let reality get in the way of hatred...
     
  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Why not just abolish the minimum wage? Having a minimum wage sets an artificial starting point for wages...which has always and will forever never be adjusted high enough. I think having a minimum wage is a cop-out for employers!
     
  24. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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  25. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    So how do you decide what an unskilled person's labor is worth? While there is a training period, there should be a base compensation, then once they prove they have learned the skills needed to perform the job, a step up from that base.
     

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