Northern Ireland will remain in EU trade zone

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by kazenatsu, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It looks like Northern Ireland is going to be remaining in the EU trade zone.

    The UK Conservative Party did this to avoid critics who were complaining that the UK leaving the EU (and by extension the EU trade zone) could bring back old tensions since a hard border wall would have to return to the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    So Northern Ireland will remain politically part of the UK, but will be in a separate trade zone from the rest of the UK.
    Unionists in Northern Ireland feel betrayed by the Conservatives. This, they feel, is one step towards Northern Ireland breaking away from the UK and being reabsorbed by Ireland. There will now be hard border checkpoints between Northern Ireland and the UK. So this is very symbolic.

    However, the Conservative Party probably did the best thing, considering the circumstances. They wanted to push ahead with leaving the EU, and opponents of leaving the EU kept bringing up the Irish backstop issue. Now that is no longer an obstacle.

    Despite some points of contention, Conservatives would prefer for the UK to remain in the EU trade zone, but the EU leaders have made clear that will not happen, that remaining in the EU trade zone is contingent upon remaining in the EU and accepting EU policies (such as the free movement of people). So they were using that as leverage to try to stop to the UK from leaving, and it looks like they are unwilling to back down from carrying out the threat.

    But an exception was made for Northern Ireland, because no one wants to rock the boat there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  2. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The English Nationalists organising Brexit did not even think about NI. Polls have them saying a hard Brexit was more important to them than renewed violence in Northern Ireland and an Independent Scotland. They wanted to go against the GFA but pressure was too much.
    The DUP who were holding the last Government up voted for Brexit and wanted Brexit because it believed it would keep the UK together. This is very important to them because their reason for being goes hand in hand with their being a United Kingdom. They hoped that by voting in this way they would make the future possibility of an Independent Scotland and United Ireland impossible. In reality they have made it almost a certainty....and yes, they were let down by the Tories.
    Here is the change

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/...sons-brexit-deal-is-better-than-theresa-mays/

    which further shows them putting the knife in the DUP. NI will continue with its links to Ireland and the EU - though there is apparently still some possibility of some stop at the border. The most likely response will be that in a few years they have a vote and decide to make things simpler and become a United Ireland. For the first time ever NI have a majority of Nationalist politicians. Whether the DUP allow this or whether it leads to increased violence is yet to be seen. The Brexit English Nationalists and the Unionists in Ireland had different interests despite the DUP being the people who held May's Government up.

    Despite all his rhetoric Boris will almost certainly need to give Scotland another vote on Independence in the next five years while the UK is suffering the most dramatic economic problems from leaving the EU so the English Nationalist Brexits will almost certainly in the next few years get their desire of an Independent ethnic nationalist England. I do not believe this was ever the intent of the majority of the people of England.
    Yes, if you want special deals with others you need to go by the conditions which they provide. This is just waffling like the waffling Johnson did during the Referendum saying that the EU would give the UK any deal it wanted as it needed the UK more than the UK needed the EU - total Rubbish!. This was always spin as is your suggestion that the EU is to blame.

    Boris may have wanted to have his cake and eat it but that never would have happened. The damage done to the UK is for the future to show but almost certainly will lead to the UK or rather England becoming a subsiduary of the US. The talk some of them came up with in this making the UK more Demcratic is laughable. The Tories are doing what their backers, the Hedge Funders want. For them it is just about personally making loads of money. People are saying that there is also the intent of some, Trumps US being one to destroy the EU which could become quite powerful in the near future. Russia has the same desire to support those who would leave the EU with the intent of destroying it and thereby increasing their power. The UK has give both what they want.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  3. Boosewell

    Boosewell Active Member

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    Makes sense. It does beg the question of who would want Ulster in the first place, but as long as we get Brexit the Northern Ireland question can be left in the care of time.
     
  4. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    just a shame it remains part of the UK
     
  5. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    There is no Brexit without Northern Ireland as part of it in the same way as the rest of the UK. Leaving Northern Ireland in some kind of different circumstances was not on the ballot paper.
     
  6. Boosewell

    Boosewell Active Member

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    It may not have been on the ballot paper, but the UK is due to leave the EU by 31 January 2020. Provided that happens I doubt many Brexiters will be bothered if Ulster is left behind
     
  7. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    I believe it is six counties of Ulster. You write above that the UK is due to leave by 31st January 2020 and say 'provided that happens' but it isn't going to happen is it? The reason being that Northern Ireland is part of the UK.
    It is not Brexit whatever verbal or mental gymnastics anybody indulges in.
     
  8. Boosewell

    Boosewell Active Member

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    I am a bit lost.

    The UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Ulster, which is where we keep the lawnmower. If the Micks want to stay behind or get lost on the way out I doubt that many on the mainland will miss Northern Ireland's incomprehensible politics, medieval religions and non existent economy.
     
  9. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Will many in the UK miss Scotland if they end up going their own way?
     
  10. Boosewell

    Boosewell Active Member

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    Miss Scotland? Do you mean Wee Krankie? Probably not.
     
  11. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Right. Down to England and Wales now is it?
    Wales next?
     
  12. Boosewell

    Boosewell Active Member

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    If that is what the Welsh want.
     
  13. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    How about London?
     
  14. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue is that through some quirk of nationalistic fervour there are some deluded and politically active nut jobs that believe these “countries” can actually separate and be viable nations. They can’t.
    However, the fact that we are now oh so politically correct and allow all sorts of fruit bats oxygen means that we have to allow these delusions room to grow..... and indeed fund this psychosis with taxpayers money. Ultimately it’s a child’s fantasy. However, being good parents we foster this mental aberration in the hope that it keeps them from further tantrums until they grow up.
     
  15. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    The exercise of Orwellian doublethink is rampant.
    Like even though the whole of the UK isn't leaving on the 31st January 2020, in actual fact the whole of the UK is leaving on the 31st January 2020. Or, we control our borders by not controlling our borders.
     
  16. Boosewell

    Boosewell Active Member

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    In the unlikely event that London holds a referendum and decides to leave the UK then that is fine by me. I won't like it but that is democracy and I will abide by the decision of my fellow Londoners. Had the remainers had the mother wit to grit their teeth and accept the result of the referendum then the UK would have been out of the EU by now and all sides would be wondering what the fuss was about.

    But the remainers didn't. They lied and treated the electorate like retarded children and that is why Johnson won the election. And from the looks of it it is the reason why he will probably win the 2024 election as well.
     
  17. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Gosh. Operation blame. It is brexiters who not only can't solve the Irish border problem but also blocked May via the ERG.
     
    Montegriffo likes this.
  18. Boosewell

    Boosewell Active Member

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    Well there you are.

    I don't know what you are on about and I doubt that you do either.

    Even so..

    Happy New Year to one and all !
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, isn't it conceivably at least possible they might be given special status, like Northern Ireland?

    Although that could start making things very messy, because it's hard to imagine border checkpoints between Scotland and the rest of the UK.
     
  20. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    NI stays in the UK trade zone.
    Sorry EU.


    The UK will be making behind the lines border checkpoints at NI ports instead of on the border.
    Here we will enforce EU tariffs on goods being sold into S Ireland by the UK.
    These tariffs however will be kept by the UK government.

    S ireland will also create behind the lines checkpoints to ensure their products being sold into the UK meet our standards and pay tariffs.


    NI and southern Ireland will keep the same standards on agricultural produce for their cross border trade. And Free movement of people between Ireland and the UK will continue on the Irish border. An agreement which predates the EU.

    These arrangements are subjet to N Irish veto.
    And a poltical declaration has been made on more issues the UK and EU government would like to see agreed in the future.

    The Irish Protocol.
    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pub...hern-ireland-included-withdrawal-agreement_en
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020

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