Ohio veteran, 37, who went viral for refusing to wear a mask, died of COVID-19

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by LangleyMan, Jul 17, 2020.

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  1. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The govt has a place in any society. Yet there are many things they can't do and shouldn't do.

    I want govt to protect the lives and property of its people. Where it can without destroying god given rights. Or this republic. You can have a temporary suspension of some rights in an emergency like in times of war as long as those rights come back and asap. Common sense is the guide.

    The idea that your rights end where the other person's nose begins is how it should work.

    That being mandated to wear a mask around other people somehow usurps freedom is rather stupid.

    It has to be mandated when people refuse to do it to protect others. We are not all responsible people and that is sad. So we have to rely upon our representatives to step in on our behalf..

    So far the high death rates occur in old people. And most are not in the workforce. That some states have seen an explosion in new infections isn't that bad given the low death rates even if higher than the flu. You just isolate your at risk old people.

    For the show must go on! We can't create another depression out of hysterics. The cure is worse than the disease.

    All we can do is use masks and social distance. And have mask making industry here at home since novel viruses will be with us from here on out. And we can't run out of PPE!

    If it starts to kill more young people they out of self interests will use masks and social distance unless low IQ.

    For myself and being old I am careful and that is all I can do. I don't care if the young go to beaches. You won't find me there! Or in crowds.
     
  2. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    imagine that. Opening the economy and public services such as schools is what must happen. Masking up seems to give to many a false sense of security. Maybe you should suggest to politicians the concept of imposing severe fines, and incarceration, if you are caught without a mask or pulling down your mask or touching inside of the mask

    Masking up is our only way out of this, isn't it? We must go all in with tightly regulated/punished/fined mask laws
     
  3. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    RETIRED SURGEON Sam Laucks

    I have spent the past 39 years working in the field of surgery. For a significant part of that time, I have worn a mask. I have worked with hundreds (probably thousands) of colleagues during those years, who have also worn masks. Not a single one us of became ill, passed out or died from lack of oxygen. Not a single one of us became ill, passed out or died from breathing too much carbon dioxide. Not a single one us of became ill, passed out or died from rebreathing a little of our own exhaled air. Let’s begin here by putting those scare tactics to rest!

    (It is true that some people, with advanced lung diseases, may be so fragile that a mask could make their already-tenuous breathing more difficult. If your lungs are that bad, you probably shouldn’t be going out in public at the present time anyway; the consequences if you are exposed to Covid-19 would likely be devastating.)

    ~ “But”, you ask, “can’t viruses go right through the mask, because they are so small?” (“Masks keep viruses out just as well as a chain link fence keeps mosquitoes out,” some tell us.) It is true that individual virus particles can pass through the pores of a mask; however, viruses don’t move on their own. They do not fly across the room like a mosquito, wiggle through your mask like a worm, or fly up your nose like a gnat. The virus is essentially nothing more than a tiny blob of genetic material. Covid-19 travels in a CARRIER – the carrier is a fluid droplet- fluid droplets that you expel when you cough, sneeze, sing, laugh, talk or simply exhale. Most of your fluid droplets will be stopped from entering the air in the room if you are wearing a mask. Wearing a mask is a very efficient way to protect others if you are carrying the virus (even if you don’t know that you are infected). In addition, if someone else’s fluid droplets happen to land on your mask, many of them will not pass through. This gives the wearer some additional protection, too. But, the main reason to wear a mask is to PROTECT OTHERS. Even if you don’t care about yourself, wear your mask to protect your neighbors, co-workers and friends!

    ~ A mask is certainly not 100% protective. However, it appears that the severity of Covid-19 infection is at least partially “dose-dependent.” In other words, the more virus particles that enter your body, the sicker you are likely to become. Why not decrease that volume if you can? “What have you got to lose?!”

    ~ “But doesn’t a requirement or a request to wear a mask violate my constitutional rights?” You’re also not allowed to go into the grocery store if you are not wearing pants. You can’t yell “fire” in the Produce Department. You’re not allowed to urinate on the floor in the Frozen Food Section. Do you object to those restrictions? Rules, established for the common good, are component of a civilized society.

    ~ “But aren’t masks uncomfortable?” Some would say that underwear or shoes can be uncomfortable, but we still wear them. (Actually, being on a ventilator is pretty darned uncomfortable, too!) Are masks really so bad that you can’t tolerate them, even if they will help keep others healthy?

    ~ “But won’t people think I’m a snowflake or a wimp if I wear a mask?” I hope you have enough self-confidence to overcome that.

    ~ “But won’t I look stupid if I wear a mask?” I’ve decided not to dignify that question with an answer!! [​IMG]:)

    ~ “But I never get sick; I’m not worried.” Well, then, wear a mask for the sake of the rest of us who are not so perfect!

    There is good evidence that masks make a real difference in diminishing the transmission of Covid-19. Please, for the sake of others (and for the sake of yourself), wear your mask when in public. It won’t kill you!

    P.S. - And, by the way, please be sure that BOTH your nose and mouth are covered!

    Recommendations around mask usage are confusing. The science isn't. Evidence shows that masks are extremely effective to slow the coronavirus and may be the best tool available right now to fight it.”
     
  4. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    why is it so hard for ppl to wear mask in public/indoor, its just like wearing seat belt, you never know when you gonna get into car accident. ppl put their kids in child seat too. in this case one infect person without mask could infect many more.
     
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  5. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Now they are finding out that the viral load is huge as far as how or even if you get sick from this thing and that masks not only protect others but can reduce the viral load you are exposed to
     
  6. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, can you share your source. I’d like to know the infectious dose. I was not aware of any experimental challenge studies in progress.
     
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    It's much more like ******** in the street. Even with a cure available cholera is some bad **** and can still carry you away.
     
  8. Rockin'Robin

    Rockin'Robin Banned

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    Trump is bad so why deny it? If I had allowed a patient with a common cold to get passed the front desk of the dental office I used to manage and into one of the operatories without alerting the doctor or the hygienist of the patients ailment, I would have had my ass handed to me....and rightly so! So please don't insult the intelligence of folks by pretending Trump did not monumentally screw the pooch and that he is not a tremendous coward for refusing to own any of it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  9. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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  10. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    A virus cannot "grow" on anything but a host. But yes, have a collection of masks that are washed between each use
     
  11. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Somehow people who refuse to wear masks (or advocate that) think that not wearing correctly or using basic sanitation regarding it...is an excuse for not wearing masks.

    That's the kind of argument I have had with my kids a thousand times
     
  12. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    So you can’t back up your claim. We don’t know the infectious dose. Pull quote from your link.
    Bold text is my emphasis to help you understand your link.
    We don’t know if increasing the infectious dose leads to higher viral load. Another pull quote from your link.
    Bold text is my emphasis to help you understand your link.

    Now, here is a link based on the same information (actually lack of information) but is a little better at being honest about it.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sc...-exposed-to-determine-how-sick-you-ll-get/amp

    Here is a pull quote explaining why we don’t know the definitive answer to the infectious dose question or if higher infectious dose causes higher viral loads independent of other variables.
    Of course I care. I care about honesty and not making things up to support a narrative. In dealing with life and death decisions I demand facts, not suppositions woven into prose designed to prey on emotion.

    You claimed that now they are finding out things. I would love to know these things. If you have information “they” actually are finding what the infectious dose is and if initial dose does actually affect subsequent viral load independent of other variables described in my link, please share that information.
     
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  13. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The masks only contain virus? Host animals don't come into contact with the masks in the trash?
     
  14. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    From that link

    "A high infectious dose may lead to a higher viral load, which can impact the severity of Covid-19 symptoms.

    Viral load is a measure of virus particles. It is the amount of virus present once a person has been infected and the virus has had time to replicate in their cells. With most viruses, higher viral loads are associated with worse outcomes."

    Now that is not hard proof but that is the general consensus of medical experts.

    Bearing that in mind...I'd err on the side of caution and wear the damn mask.

    It's not a huge inconvenience and it MIGHT save my life
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  15. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    This thread is about the virus. What has a discarded mask in the trash have anything to do with the transmission of this virus? A discarded Macdonalds in a trash bin is more of a threat to people than a discarded mask
     
  16. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem erring on the side of caution. My problem is with making claims that can’t be substantiated, which is what I’ve addressed.

    Do you find any humor in the irony of you basing your feelings about infectious dose affect on C19 severity on influenza data? After months of telling us C19 should never be compared to the flu?

    Be safe. Do what makes you feel safe. I have no problem with that. But I’m weary of leftists spreading misinformation while simultaneously complaining about others doing so and advocating for forcing their views of risk tolerance on others.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  17. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    orange man bad; we get the Democrat rally cry
     
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Luckily not me, but some people have asthma. Some have COPD and other such ailments. For those people, wearing a mask is difficult and/or harmful.

    Does God Anthony or the CDC bureaucrats allow for those people, or are they just **** out luck here in the land of the free?
     
  19. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Wearing a mask for 15 minutes is not difficult or harmful for anyone capable of going to a store or other enclosed area
     
  20. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its not the years in life that count, its the life in the years. He lived how he wanted.
     
  21. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I guess so.
     
  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are you saying you have COPD so you know that from experience?
     
  23. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    If that person is capable of going on a shopping trip then that person is also capable of wearing a mask for 15 minutes
     
  24. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    It seems "truth and justice" is rather lip service, eh?

    I guess you must be cruel to be kind, eh?

    Your absence of sympathy and knowledge is typical of the religious zeal that permeates the mask controversy.
     
  25. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    LOL You haven't addressed anything in my one line post. It's your anti-mask behaviour that is a threat to those with COPD
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020

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