Russia has been paying Afghanistan militants to kill NATO troops

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by (original)late, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're getting it from the wrong starting point of asking ...

    First of all, ask why the US is installing an anti-missile screen against Russia in Poland at a time when Russia has not done anything evil!

    How would you like it if Russia, which is still allied with Cuba, puts its anti-missile shield right in front of the USA's nose in Cuba ... and thus also reduces your skills with the ICBMs, if they are still after the start shot down over the US, eh?
    Would you then say exactly the same thing and ask why the US minds if they don't want to shoot Cuba etc., eh?

    That is exactly the reason why Russia was and is angry ... and rightly so!

    Here you have ... to say it politely ... damn lousy researched and not looked deep enough.

    What is this about?
    Germany uses the Patriot for air defense like the USA and many other countries ... which is known to have shot down a few Scud Missles against Saddam at least in 1991 ... and since this system is no longer really up to date, Germany needs a successor.
    So it is a pure modernization by a successor for an already existing system ... which should also be in the interests of the USA ... which is at stake here!

    And there is an important difference: We are not placing the system right in front of Russia's noses in Poland and Romania and here we are not initially telling the bold lie asBush Jr. did once that it is not against Russia, but against Iran and North Korea.

    It is stationed in our country - at best on request and a NATO HQ resolution elsewhere, e.g. for a while German patriots in Turkey to protect against the potential threat from Syrian missiles.

    I think it's ... sorry ... ridiculous how you repeat this idiotic propaganda against Russia 1: 1 and refer to World War II. Has Putin ever threatened Poland to attack it? No!
    Has he ever actively started to station massive troops in the enclave of Kainengrad in order to invade Poland ... or even massively strengthened the military there without NATO having previously massively increased its troop strength in Poland? No!

    And as far as the modernization of the Polish armored forces is concerned, you apparently did not research properly or deeply enough:

    Poland has 9 tank battalions and only 3 of them are equipped with the T-72M ... that is a total of 160 to 170 tanks that need to be modernized / replaced with M1A2s.
    2 battalions are equipped with the Leopard 2A4 and A5 and these should be brought to standard of A6 or A7 which es at least a total other Leopard with new and longer 120 mm gun (btw ... the 120 mm gun of the Amrican M1 is the gun of the German Leopard until A5 version ... also used by others like Israel in their Merkava ... so no US construction, but German!)
    4 battalions are equipped with the PT-91, which is a version of the T-72 which Poland is very proud of and which Poland is very proud of and which is also good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  2. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,880
    Likes Received:
    51,625
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. It's the only sensible starting point, you just don't like the conclusion that results. If Russia has no plans to shoot missiles toward Poland, what the hell do they care if Poland has missile defense?

    If Russia does want to shoot missiles toward Poland, then Poland most certainly does need missile defense.
    Why is defense about capability, rather than intention?
    We could care less.
    Tell me what missile defense system intercepts missiles that are traveling away from them rather than approaching them.
    That you're fine with, but if Poland does the same, suddenly you have a burr in your navel?
    So build one. Germans are the world's craftsmen, show some initiative.
    You previously argued that Poland doesn't really even border Russia, and now suddenly all of Poland "is right under Russia's noses."
     
  3. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because it generally significantly reduces Russia's entire nuclear defense capability in the event of a NATO / US attack!
    Do you have plans to shoot missiles on Russia in case of war with Russia? Of course you have it ... and vice versa, Russia has it too!

    And you got it: Besides the general plan to shoot the enemy with missiles in the event of war ... a plan that the USA and everyone else on this planet has ... there was not a single reason to have a missile in Poland to install defense against Russia ... simply because there was no corresponding threat from Russia existing at this time ... and only build up AFTER the USA installed it in Poland!

    Again: These systems not only endanger the Russian ability to attack, but also the ability to shoot back and no country can put up with that!

    Sure?
    There was once a President if the USA existing who brought the world very near to a nuclear termination, because USSR installed some dozens of nuclear missiles in Cuba ... because the USSR reacted on the American installtion of nuclear missiles in Turley with it.

    The Russians have a very fine anti-missile and plane defence system with the S-400 version "Triumf" and with the S-500 system. This will threat your capabilities to shot back with ICBMS from US soil heavy!

    Not suddenly ... this is an issue hat started many years ago, has nothing to do with Poland and isa total normal issue of regular modernization of systems when they can't fullfill their tasks pleasing way anymore.
    Aside Germany, also other countries in NATO and outside NATO do the same in matter of replacing the Patriot system!


    Ehm ... we still do?
    You know that both American systems are not pure American but a joint venture issue where about 1/3 of the system is German?

    Because the range of the Anti missle systems are big and fly in parts over Belarus or Ukraine at least to hit Russian missiles in Russia or over Belarus / Ukraine.
     
  4. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    76,880
    Likes Received:
    51,625
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you for your informative post. Would you mind addressing this?

    Why is defense about capability, rather than intention?
     

Share This Page