The Left's Crazed Revolution Is A Threat To All

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Zorro, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Like in France Germany Scandinavia Italy Spain etc etc. They know what socialism is, they have had socialist party and communist party at the same time in the difference is democracy. Meanwhile the English speaking world has socialism but they don't know it. Except for America of course thanks to your GOP giveaway to the rich and brainwash for the rest.....The conflation between socialism and communism is a conservative strategy that has worked great since the beginning of the USSR. Who also call themselves socialist. Post right wing Nazis and left wing time in this love calling themselves socialist just for the missinformed.... All modern countries except for us already have everything that Sanders and AOC want. get your head out of your propaganda and take a look around the world....
    The people who run every other modern country that don't speak English call themselves socialists. Only English speakers especially conservatives are terminally confused about the difference between socialism and communism. France Germany Italy Spain and Netherlands Scandinavia all know the difference. The confusion is just another way the GOP and conservatives run a huge giveaway to the rich and a screw job and propaganda brainwash for everyone else the last 30-40 years. Canada has everything that Sanders and AOC won and they are not communists. Try and get it through your head lol.....
     
  2. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

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    Of course the English speaking world has socialism and knows full well about it (as we see with FDR's New Deal and LBJ's Great Society), and as America sees its current adaptation of socialism via the Green New Deal and the puppet sleepy joe's cave into any and almost all of the progressive actions of his far left progressive party. Tell me how any of sleepy joe's 64 or so executive orders that killed many of Trump's nation building and nation's defensive initiatives are anything but socialist. And you may never realize or admit that socialism is indeed the baby sister to communism, but that's a reality that you still have to live with.

    Somewhere in your response you mentioned Conservatives or Republicans run a huge giveaway to the rich. LOL! It is of course the complete opposite as we see liberal or dems in bed with rich high tech firms and rich corporations. Conservatives are for the hard working people of America, as we saw Trump cut those taxes down and eliminated many of the business strangling regulations that obama had placed on small businesses.

    While those countries you mentioned that deal in socialism are barely surviving, here in America (at least when Trump was potus before the Virus) we did have our best economy ever. But now with socialism under sleepy joe we may go under in record time. So you name a socialist nation that is doing above average in their overall economy and lifestyle for its people. When you see or finally realize that all socialist nations fail (like they did in Venezuela) then you'll be able to come to the conclusion on your own that socialism is a nation killer ideology.
     
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    No they don't
    Not really no. And none 8f them are really socialist. Remember the first casualty of politics is always the truth and that's especially so on the left, hence every leftist statist regime since 1930 reffers to itself as a people's republic, never mind the fact that it is not republic and the people have no say at all in the state's public policy. The governing structures in most of Europe, since Thatcher don't resemble anything so much as they do fascist Italy in which the state owned production of nothing but control, through various bureaucracies, the production of everything. Again it is not any sort of socialism that would be recognized as such by the Fabians, or Marx.

    What kills now and always is high taxes, and excessive bureaucratic overburden. It does this by driving money and investing overseas. And by making tax avoidance more profitable than investing in production infrastructure.
     
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  4. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Other socialist countries include France Germany Scandinavia Italy Spain and Australian New Zealand the UK. Canada. So why are we the only modern country without health care a living wage daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training great infrastructure and vacations and an ID card to end illegal immigration like every other modern country has? Communism is a dictatorship, socialism is always democratic except in brainwashed GOP/Tory world. Venezuela is a corrupt third world country no matter who is in charge lol. Even the UK and America had socialist parties before the USSR started and the fix was in against socialists. Ever heard of Eugene Debs? Check him out. He was a socialist who got like 20% of the vote I believe before world war I then was thrown into prison for being a pacifist.
     
  5. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Trump's tax cuts run out for regular people in 2024 but continue for the mega rich forever. 83% of the tax cut went to the top 1%, who have no need of it. Trump's greatest achievement was not wrecking Obama's economy, until he did lol. Trump's statistics were just a continuation of the economy getting better so of course it was the best before he screwed it with his pandemic response....
     
  6. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's rich, considering Trump supporters actually did murder a cop, quite recently.
     
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  7. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Firstly as I noted before context overview are all important. If ALL Obama did during his term in office was attack or undermine America on many or most occasions when speaking then you would have a point but he is also clearly on the record doing the opposite on numerous occasions. So the entire speech and the context of his remarks matter. Same thing applies to Trump.

    The next thing to point out is that painting any change to any laws, regulations and policies etc backed by conservative voters as 'un-American' is a purely a personal judgement on your part. A Democrat voter can and probably will adopt exactly the opposite viewpoint - and his opinion on the subject carries no more weight under the Constitution than yours does.

    And as far as voting for Biden goes? Just because people disliked, even hated Trump again, the same thing applies in reverse! Millions of Americans would have no doubt voted for Trump because they disliked or hated Biden! So if its OK for them to do that it must be OK for people to do the opposite. You can't have you cake and eat it to. And regardless of any other policies he may have Biden has always been more pro-active (even before he became President) regarding COVID that Trump was. And that was a strategic mistake on Trumps part. You might not think that one issue is enough to undo all the' good' policies you think Trump may have implemented but many other Americans obviously disagreed.

    As for the radical left? I'm not surprised they are not waving flags around for Biden. The extreme left think the entire political system is corrupt needs to be overturned. Therefore they generally don't vote for anyone! And waving flags doesn't necessarily correlate with Patriotism. There are some extremist right wing groups out there who constantly wave the flag. That doesn't mean the average Republican supports their ideologies or is less patriotic. Patriotism is not a virtue 'owned' by one side of politics or the other.

    The key issue in all of the above is the tendency to make across both side of Politics to tar everyone on the 'other' side with what are perceived to be the worst sins of the extreme left or right. You know the drill. All Democrats are radical socialists bent on undermining the US economy, flooding the country with illegal immigrants and disarming the populate. All Republicans are racist, fear mongers who wish to jail or expel anyone who dares disagree with their Neo-fascist view of America. None of which is true about the vast (90% plus) majorities of both sides. IMO the biggest threat to America isn't the far left or the far right. It's the inability of both sides to reach realistic compromises on key issues effecting the Country. The middle ground. And the more you tear each other part the more your real external enemies laugh!
     
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  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I call bullshit on that. You need to provide some reliable and solid evidence. You could start by stating your meaning of "fascist". Then, tell us what makes the Democrats "fascist" in your unusually fertile imagination?
     
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  9. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Socialism has always, everywhere, been presented as the "liberation of the working class from exploitation by capital". It is to be the antithesis of capitalism. It would ban capitalist exploitation and provide for the workers to own and control their workplaces. The economic system of every country you listed is capitalism. The working class has not been liberated from capitalist exploitation in any of them. The depth of the suffering under capitalist exploitation has been greatly improved in most of them by the implementation of regulations on the capitalist economies and by socially-beneficial programs to make capitalism "tolerable", but in every one of them private ownership of business for private profit is the rule, and both conservative and right wing parties and politicians continue to press their issues in all of them.

    Every attempt to establish socialism has failed before any socialist economy could be established. Strategies failed and capitalism won, and for known reasons.
     
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  10. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Some of what you say is agreeable. However, I'd like to correct or clarify a couple of things.
    One of the very first things Obama did as president was hightail it over to the Mideast and apologize profusely for America being so strong and promised we would greatly lower our stature.
    Other than maybe a couple wild-eyed outliers, I know of nobody who didn't vote for Biden because they hated him or disliked him personally. It was far and away because they viewed him as an incompetent doddering president. On the contrary millions (but certainly not all) did not vote for Trump because they suffered from TDS and hated him immensely.
     
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  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    You might actually read what I said and read a little of the historical philosphy of your own move. Communism has to date seldom existed in this world the best three examples of an attempt are the Paris commune, the Hutterites, the Shakers, pillgrims and first century Christians. Only the Hutterites and the Shakers lasted more than a year. Strangely they were two groups of like minded religious folk.

    Marx saw socialism as a necessary step on
    cancel culture, book burnings ass on Seattle and Portland during those 'mostly peaceful' riots, attempts to remove alternative views from the air waves per two house members issuing thinly veiled threats against cable companies if they continued to carry Fox OAN or News Max, the 8ncreasing desire of Democrats to run everything from Washington DC which has been going on at least since FDR. Need more?
     
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  12. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    "More"? No, I need something RELEVANT. And ACCURATE.

    First you said "And of the two parties the Dems are far and away the more fascist." So I asked you for evidence and your meaning of "fascist".

    Next you "reply" by reciting things CITIZENS did that you object to, even though the right is guilty of the same things. But what about my question? It got lost. You didn't say anything about how Dems are "far and away the more fascist", AND you didn't provide your own definition of "fascist" as I had asked. So "more"? No, an actual answer please without deflecting to save your butt when you have no answer.!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  13. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Fascist = state control of everything either directly by laws or indirectly by rules and regulations the later being far and away the most common in this modern world in a nominally democratic society.
     
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  14. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    As I noted individual previously speeches or even a set of speeches mean little. What matters are the persons words and actions in toto. And IMO one of Obama's weaknesses, perhaps the main one was a clear lack of focus on foreign policy. Not so much a set of significantly bad polices that produced significantly bad outcomes so much as no real policies or outcomes at all. Supposedly he has never been known for having a significant focus on or interest in what many people would regard as traditionally as key US foreign policy issues but in part I think this absence was explained by the sheer amount of political capital and time taken up getting the ACA legislation passed.

    Either way I see little evidence that America as a nation grew weaker under Obama. The economy grew during Obama's terms in office and unemployment fell. Making America 'great' isn't the problem. It's simply unrealistic to expect other nations not to grow their economies as well and that growth is always fastest off a low base. Your economy is not 'running' any slower, its just that others are learning to run as fast as the US does and every loop round the track sees them close the distance a little more. And that's not just China its everyone. In the end all they are doing is copying America (the bits they want anyway).

    If they did not dislike him personally then they disliked him because of what he stands for (or at least what they perceived him as standing for). Either way the same principal applies. As far as Trump goes he publicly demonstrated personally traits that did not help his popularity. You know the drill, comments about women, persistently denying saying or doing thinks that were a matter of record etc etc. Point is Trump had fostered a certain public personae long before he entered politics and he took it with him into office. And yes a lot of people did not like that personae, which I suppose may not be how he acts in private (I wouldn't know). Biden on the other hand has long fostered a more traditional public personae and yes that could be all an act but again I wouldn't know.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  15. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know you believe a mountain of garbage propaganda. Socialism is fair capitalism with a good safety net and always democratic. Communism is a dictatorship that owns all business and industry. The differences democracy and only the English speaking world doesn't know it. English Tory propaganda is also great. They passed brexit like a bunch of meet heads.
     
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  16. Hey Nonny Mouse

    Hey Nonny Mouse Well-Known Member

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    If the actions of a single school board stand for all of the left, does that mean that anything done by a conservative board stands for all of the right?
     
  17. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    actually that is the way it started with Carl Marks and Engels but times have changed for crying out loud. Non English speaking countries have socialist parties and used to have communist parties too and they know the difference. Democracy. When the USSR fell so did their support for the communist parties and they disappeared. In France and Italy they used to get 15-20% in the '70s... Today nobody wants communism except with a gun to their head or in GOP/tory propaganda world.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  18. hellofromwarsaw

    hellofromwarsaw Well-Known Member

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    Fascists want a right wing dictatorship. Right-wing means they love corporations big business and the wealthy and aristocrats. Like the GOP or Hitler. Trumpsters basically know nothing factual about politics change the channel read something not produced by Rupert Murdoch or worse.....
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    So then pretty much what the Democrats have built since FDR...
     
  20. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't disagree with most of what you say.
     
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that most of the public record on Trump was created by his detractors and a lot of it is slanted as hell when it isn't out right lies. Attacks against women? Yeah three of them all of whom had previously launched vicious ad hominems against him.
    Much of the rest of them are quite similar. Most of the so-called lies are related to the fact that Trump's immennse self confidence caused him to promise things that he simply could not deliver compounded by the fact that he tends either intentionally or unintentionally to be rather ambiguous in his speech which all too often leaves his opponents the opportunity to supply their own interpretation to his words and it would always be as negative as they could make it.
     
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  22. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I mostly agree. However, Trump's record of accomplishing what he promised during the campaign, as bombastic as they sounded, is astounding and puts many of his predecessors to shame.
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    While that is true there were many thing he was unable to accomplish simply because establishment R's and D's chose to fight him at every turn. One should note that this stone walling had nothing to do with whether or not it would benefit the American people and much if not everything to do with preserving their power.
     
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  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    I have looked around and I perceived the truth. In most of Europe the government determines how much health care you get and for how long.
     
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  25. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I completely agree.
     

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