The Magic Pill... documentary on Netflix... I highly recommend it.

Discussion in 'Music, TV, Movies & other Media' started by DennisTate, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ? I mean a risk tax on sugar, fast foods, highly processed foods, cigs, booze, skydiving, scuba diving, etc etc, based on the actual cost to health care. By taxing products according to their health cost risk, the cost of health care could effectively be cut in half or more.
     
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree, but I am saying the elected officials will fight it... because both republican and democrats in power have political reasons to ignore it

    the Precedent was set with Cigarettes, so a tax like that can be added to anything, that said, I agree with a reasonable tax, unlike the cigarette tax which has gotten out of control.. I would be all for a reasonable sugar tax
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The problem I have with cigarette taxes is that they aren't dedicated to pay for health care.

    A total tax of about $10 a pack, pays for all associated health care costs.

    But yes, righties won't like it because its a tax, and lefties will argue that it's unfair to the poor. But the truth is, it isn't punitive. It is based on the actual cost to the health care system. And it goes a long way to solving the health care cost crisis - far far more than any other option. It would cut the cost of health care in half or more.
     
  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,180
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    One thing I see with total consistency is that NONE of these recommended foods are pleasurable to eat. I might live 10 years longer but I surely won´t want to. **** that.
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    $10 is too much imo but I agree with the concept and agree a tax on sugar would lower healthcare costs... way more then taxing cigarettes ever did...

    and I also agree with you... where is that taxes going? it shoudl be used to help take care of those suffering from diseases the product is said to have caused

    and this cost is gonna be big, the trump admin knows this

    "Trump Official Says Diabetes a Preexisting Condition Not Worthy of Coverage"

    https://insulinnation.com/living/tr...t-a-preexisting-condition-worthy-of-coverage/
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ten dollars is how much each pack of cigarettes cost in health care. These are calculated values.

    A sugar tax would pay for that. If taxed according to its cost, a third of all health care could be paid by a sugar tax.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    sugar is causing a much bigger rise in healthcare costs then anti-smokers could of even dreamed of cigarettes doing

    that said, I support a tax on both cigarettes and sugar... but a reasonable tax.. excessive tax hurts society, especially the poor

    if there is a sugar tax, it should used to help people pay for sugar related healthcare costs
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't seem to understand. If you take the total cost in health care due to smoking annually, then divide by the number of packs of cigs sold annually, you get the required tax per pack of just under $10

    The tax on sugar should be $20 a pound using the same method.

    The thing to understand is that this is what we are paying NOW for cigs and sugar. These aren't just theoretical numbers. We pay it through the cost of insurance, taxes for health care, and health care itself. This simply shifts the cost to the point of purchase.

    What changes is that I don't have to pay for the cost of someone else's choices. The tax is entirely voluntary. Right now I am forced to pay for other peoples cigs, sugar, booze, fast food, salt intake, etc, etc, etc. It is all reflected in the cost of insurance. These are real numbers.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I disagree, I do not think a $10 tax on cigarettes is appropriate, maybe a 50% tax, anything over 100% is harming society

    I also think your numbers are fictional for the cost of the harm from smoking

    I agree with taxing these products, but not an extremely excessive tax

    I would not support a $10 tax on a candy bar for instance, a 50% tax... sure.. like 50 cents
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think what happened to America is starting to hit home now that the same is happening overseas as the same things happen there, it will be hard to ignore

    [​IMG]
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    another good one

    "Dr. Michael Eades - 'A New Hypothesis of Obesity'"

     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    interesting

     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Why we get Fat AND Hungry"

     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Why Long Term Fasting is AMAZING: 1-2 Day Fasts"

     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why Fructose is so bad for you, it's processed by the liver like Alcohol (without the intoxication), this is why it causes fatty liver the same as alchol

    remember, sugar is 50% Fructose

    "The Trouble With Fructose"



    if they came out with a beer that could not pass the blood\brain barrier, would you give that to a child... that is Fructose crazy enough
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "The Real Reason that Keto Improves Health - Healthy Ketogenic Diet"

     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    this is changing the views of Cholesterol, he is showing you could change your test score just based on your diet the previous 4 days to the test.... many life insurance companies use these numbers so can't imagine the science will be ignored for long

    these are long and technical, but very interesting and changing how we look at Cholesterol



     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  19. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Are Saturated Fats Safe and How Much to Have'

     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "More Dietary Fat, Less Cholesterol"

     
  21. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You think the cost of smoking is fictional? These are the health care costs directly attributable to smoking.

    And what is wrong with taxing them according to their cost? Why should I have to pay for other people's choices?

    These are the costs we are paying NOW. But I have to pay for choices other people make. Also, if we don't move the direction of taxing for costly choices, then more and more pressure will build to ban those choices altogether. Taxing our choices leverages the right of choice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think your over-exaggerating the costs, and regardless, none of that tax will go to pay for a smokers medical costs if they need it

    a $10.00 tax on Cigarettes or a candy bar is excessive

    I am all for a sin tax on cigarettes, alchol and sugar, just a reasonable tax, not an excessive one - more like the alchol tax

    most of our healthcare costs today are caused by the low fat, high carb recommendations by our government, not by cigarettes

    we both agree there should be a tax on cigarettes, alchol and sugar, you just think it should be a 1000% tax, I think a 50% tax
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  23. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I looked it up. Do you think I'm just pulling this out of thin air?

    https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/economics/econ_facts/index.htm


    https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/economics/econ_facts/index.htm

    So with 239 billion cigarettes at 300 billion a year in health care costs, that comes out to a tax of $1.25 a cigarette. But when you dig into it more, they play numbers games with lost productivity. The include the number of days you would have worked if you had not died! LOL! So in the end, I only take the 170 billion for direct medical care when I cite numbers. That leaves a tax of about 70 cents per smoke, or $14 dollars a pack. So in fact, my number of $10 pack is low. But I remember throwing out a few other costs that were questionable.
    .
    As for sugar


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmun...lion-in-u-s-healthcare-spending/#2bf6948d6ad1

    https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/nhp/documents/sugar.pdf

    152 pounds per person x 328 million people is about 50 billion pounds per year. At $1 trillion per year, we get a tax of $20 per pound to pay for the associated cost of health care.


    I am giving you the cold hard facts. No amount of rationalization will change that. And if we don't start compensating for excessive costs to society, the right of choice will go away.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I think people over exaggerate the harm from smoking, it can harm you if done to excess, but a smoker still holds the longest living title, a title non-smokers only wish they could obtain

    should you be taxed 1000% for driving a car, you know how much harm that causes and how much health care costs are from that

    I do not want to punish people for smoking, drinking or eating candy, but a 50% tax woudl be enough to make some at least think about it more

    and it's not just sugar, it's HFCS, maybe we should require one be over 18 to buy a candy bar, ect... and show ID and put them behind the counter and make adults ask for them (I am kidding, people should be able to buy smokes on-line too imo, no id other then a credit card needed)

    sports is a costly healthcare item too, shoudl we also excessively tax sports equipment?

    I just do not want to get to a world with 1000% taxes on products to fund government.... reasonable taxes I can support though

    like I said though, we both agree on a sin tax, just the amount is where we disagree
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,178
    Likes Received:
    62,816
    Trophy Points:
    113

Share This Page