The Republican Party's Final Humiliation

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Modus Ponens, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    His administration only started today. Everything else was preparation. Donald Trump was still President so the country was never without leadership.
     
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You are then equally well aware that your claims...
    "How is this itself not an assault on national security?"
    "...delaying the start of his presidency out of spite. .:
    .... are unsupportable nonsense
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  3. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, you.

    Your president is calling for it.

    Predicting the downfall of the losing party after an election has been done before over and over, and they are always wrong.

    Republicans and Democrats don’t really decide elections. Independents do - 30% of the electorate. If I was a Democrat, I would be telling my party to be magnanimous in victory, drop the hate and vengeful behavior, and tread carefully in this first term. You don’t want to alienate the Independents because your future in 2022 and beyond depends on them.
     
  4. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    No unity, without accountability. For Trump and all his cronies. (And your hypocrisy is duly noted.)



    We can never count on Independents, they almost always vote Republican. Instead we need to concentrate on raising our turnout; that's the way we will win future elections.

    The Republicans became a radical party under Newt Gingrich; and that didn't stop them from winning elections. Turns out people will vote for you, if you have strong convictions. Democrats need to have those.
     
  5. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think Trump had a lot to do with those losses. The wins in the House I think are very instructive as to the political disposition of the country. Those wins should definitely serve as a warning to Democrats not to veer off to the left too far, or the next thing you know, they’ll lose the House and maybe the Senate too.

    Biden’s challenge is his own party. He will have to reign in the left wing. If he can’t or won’t, 2022 and 2024 could go very badly for them.
     
  6. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Content-free opinion..
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unsupportable nonsense is something every MAGA knows all about, since they have been swimming in a trumpian ocean of it.
    I hesitate to call it expertise or experience, its more like an intellectual affliction.
     
  8. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. I dislike the far right but also dislike the far left.
     
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  9. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your vengefulness is duly noted.


    You have no choice but to depend on Independents. Independents wouldn’t vote for Hillary in 2016, and they went with Biden in 2020. Hillary lost, Biden won. We don’t all vote the same way, but as a group, we do decide the elections. Independents are not party drones. You have to earn their vote, and if you don’t, you lose. If I was a Democrat, I would be mindful of that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  10. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    ... aptly describes your complaints here as proven by the fact you're trying to change the subject.
     
  11. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Me as well.
     
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  12. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    No. Independents are the least informed part of the electorate. It is folly for the Democrats to continue to cater to them, especially when they vote R most of the time. Instead, the Democrats need to lead boldly with their own principles, and with policies they believe in. The policies will stand or fall on their own merits. We now have control of the government; it's time for Dem politicians to do what they know is right.
     
  13. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    How do you define them? Can you give an example of a policy that you consider far right and one far left?
     
  14. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm an independent and I'm not at all a member of the least informed part of the electorate.
    No party will win presidential elections without us, the independents.
    While I voted for Biden and wholeheartedly support the start of his new administration, do understand that we the people didn't give him a far left mandate. Just look at the tiny Dem majorities in both chambers of Congress and you'll understand that there isn't such a mandate.
    I'd much prefer to see a moderate Biden administration rather than a far-leftist one, and my confidence that he will be able to work across the isle is one of the reasons I voted for him.
     
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  15. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    Just what would you consider "far-Left" policies?
     
  16. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Independents will not vote like trained monkeys.

    In 2016 Trump won the Independent vote by a mere 1 point. In 2020 Biden won the Independent vote by a whopping 13 points, far more than his overall percentage of victory. So don’t try and tell me Independents always vote Republican, and don’t discount them as you look towards future elections.

    If the Democrats seek vengeance, censor, cancel, and vilify, those Independents will turn on you just like they turned on Hillary and just like they turned on Trump.

    Enjoy your hard fought victory, but I would heed Biden’s words.
     
  17. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How many Republicans and Democrats are low-info voters who simply vote party line?

    Independents are thoughtful and informed, often leaning both right and left depending on the issue.
     
  18. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If it's still up, consult the electoral platform of one Bernie Sanders for the 2020 Democratic Party presidential nomination. Pretty much everything that was listed there; for example if you want one, extending free healthcare to illegal aliens, on the American taxpayer's back.
     
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  19. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    I don't expect to see any compromise in this government, the same people are there in charge and they have never demonstrated a will to "cross the aisle" to get along. We are far apart on the issues and the lines are hardened. Democrats have the hammer and I expect them to use it. The rest of us will survive this and perhaps gain some ground in the next round. Biden is President, not my choice but he's still President. I don't expect to be pleased by any of his policies but he's still head of this government.
     
  20. Independent4ever

    Independent4ever Well-Known Member

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    Yep on independents
    I voted 3rd Party in 2016; Biden in 2020
     
  21. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don’t have confidence in Biden. He will have to earn it if he wants my confidence, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

    Democrats do have the hammer, barely. My advice to them would be to be prudent with their hammer and work in good faith with the other side. Don’t know if they have the wisdom to do that or not, so we’ll just have to wait and see.
     
  22. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in other words, we left it up to Independents to give victory to the most manifestly unfit man to ever run for president.



    I don't give credit to any American who voted for Biden; it was their duty to stop a Fascist authoritarian Demagogue (one who was in the bargain unbelievably incompetent at his job).



    If you think seeking justice for the manifest, manifold abuses of power under the Trump Admin. is "vengeance," then you're part of the problem. As far as the Dems "canceling" their political opposition - if by that you mean ending the filibuster, then so be it. Republicans have abused the filibuster for years, thwarting the Democratic agenda and basically bringing all legislation to a halt - and then turned around, blamed the Democrats for "doing nothing," and the Independents bought the whole line!

    Independents don't have any real principles or governing philosophy, most of them vote by their whims, most of time. We are in crisis-times and we need decisive action. Catering to the least informed part of the electorate is not what the times call for. It's not leadership.
     
  23. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reminds me of the 1964 time of a major GOP defeat.
    Yet 4 years later, 1968 - NIXON's the One.
    Trust the Democrats to snatch defeat
    from the jaws of Victory.
    Then and today.


    Moi
    :oldman:





    SgtPreston-a.jpg
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
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  24. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, you mean, like the idiotic Bernie or Bust crowd?
    Gee, thanks for the generalization.
    Right, do act arrogantly, without trying to build a coalition. You'll soon learn where it will take you (hint: to the same place the Bernie or Bust people were taken).
    And gee, somehow I think that with my two doctoral degrees, I don't really qualify as someone with low information... but hey, your superior wisdom and information must be such that you're much better than me, right?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  25. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I voted for Trump in 2016 because voting for Hillary was out of the question and I agreed with Trump on policy issues. In 2020 I voted for Tulsi Gabbard in the primary and for Trump in the general election. For me, Biden was out of the question.

    Trump’s behavior after the election and during the lead-up to the Capitol Hill riot was disappointing. If I could have known the future, I would have voted third party. Riling up that crowd on the day of the riot - even if he didn’t intend for them to do what they did - disentitled him to the vote I gave him in November.

    But of course, I couldn’t see the future, and so I don’t apologize for my vote, knowing what I knew at the time.

    I love this country, and I have every intention of remaining an Independent rather than some trained monkey who can’t think for himself.

    Cheers :salute: :flagus: :beer:
     
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