The up side of a global shutdown

It is interesting to consider the number of lives that might be saved coincidentally, due to the pandemic.

One consideration is the dramatic reduction in traffic, hence the amount of driving. In fact my insurance company dropped their bill by 25% due to their reduction in losses.

1.25 million people are killed in auto accidents each year, with another 20-50 million injured or disabled. So we have about 100,000 deaths each month and lets say 3 million injuries and disabled each month, globally. If we see a 25% reduction in driving risk, as suggested by my insurance company, then we are talking about 25,000 lives saved, and 750,000 fewer injuries and disabilities, per month of the shutdown.

Another consideration is air quality. 4.6 million die each year from air pollution. Worldwide more deaths per year are linked to air pollution than to automobile accidents. We have certainly seen dramatic improvements in air quality. It will be interesting to see the effects from this.

 

To me, this feels like making a post that says the upside of having cancer is that you lose weight. It is about as hollow of a victory as is imaginable, and yet I have seen several leftists make similar comments, especially regarding the environment. I truly do not understand the leftist mindset that would celebrate such things.

 

Dude, get a grip. It is just a logical evaluation what is taking place,.

And I'm not a leftist so cut the mindless rhetoric.

 

I swear to god, it is damn near impossible to have a rational discussion with ANY trump supporter. All you get no matter what is said, is liberal liberal blah blah, trump hater trump hater blah blah blah....mindless conspiracy crap blah blah blah... It is downright sickening.

 

Pointing out that this is also occurring is not celebrating. This is just another Leftist bad leftist Bad! post.

 

Think of all the children accidentally run over and killed by school buses. And to think all of it could have been prevented if kids had to walk to school like we did.

 

You can write and spell words, some of them are quoted directly above. So I find it unlikely that someone who can write and spell words could have fashioned the OP post in good faith, sincerely... that someone could have achieved adulthood with no idea whatsoever before this Viral Moral Panic that society in the U.S. involves tradeoffs of public health/safety and liberty. Yet you posture as if you just realized this, something that even middle school kids know, as if you just learned it today. Therefore you simply must be trolling, and perhaps that is why people are getting annoyed with your OP.

 

Geezus! The upside of the shutdown! Let's just keep it up forever! Yay!

 

It's not so much a benefit that when we shut down the global economy for months or years that deaths associated with a healthy economy decline. That's a bad thing.

This is a World War II level event. It will be epoch changing. This will be looked back at the moment when China definitively put their hand in the running for dominant world superpower, and when it became apparent that they have corrupted the international system, installing a non-medic Communist Junta leader as WHO head, taking us right by the balls.

It will be remembered as the Great Depression x 10.

Just as it isn't much consolation that Flanders' Fields got a lot of high quality fertilizer between 1914 and 1918, neither is it that we have less car crashes.

 

Well, I wouldn't worry about it lasting too long.

SHUTDOWN PAIN GROWS MORE DEMOCRATIC: Vox Media furloughs more than 100 employees for three months

Watch establishment opinion on reopening change in a hurry once journalists and government workers are losing their jobs.

 

Well to be fair, your post isn't much of an example of logic.

 

This, all of this. The higher the economy, the more we have to micromanage it, lest the collapse be greater. In 1929, we took out millions in excess. Today, TRILLIONS and we get millions unemployed? This storm is unprecedented, and it will be an economic version of coronavirus. We'll be studying the economic impacts, along with the civil rights impact for decades.

 

True, but that doesn’t mean the suffering of people is worth it. Lots of people are suffering right now, and that’s not a good thing.

That also being said, I never knew how much I missed the stars before until the pandemic happened.

 

So I correctly point out that you are celebrating what is as hollow of a victory as is imaginable, and then your reply to me pointing out the undeniable is that doing so is "conspiracy crap"? LOL......Even you do not believe that. You are fooling no one. It is true, cancer is a great way to lose weight! The rational among us however know better than to celebrate that fact. You are in effect doing exactly that. If there is anything that is "sickening" in this thread, it is you celebrating a temporary improvement in air pollution that results from the Global Pandemic. People are dying worldwide, and hundreds of millions will be thrust onto poverty....but by golly, at least air pollution is getting better temporarily! Sickening INDEED! You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

Calling a temporary improvement in air pollution an "upside" IS celebrating the reduction in pollution. I am not one of those people that always decry how bad leftists are, but seeing this and countless posts on facebook and on this board celebrating pictures of Los Angeles with less air pollution, in light of everything in the world today, I find to be in terribly poor taste. People are dying, and hundreds of millions are being thrust into poverty worldwide, and some among us are counting their blessings in regards to their long held political desires. I find it appalling. Analogizing that to celebrating weight loss from cancer is apropos.

 

No, it's finding something good that comes out of situation that nobody can control. None of this was done to reduce pollution, it is a side effect. And nobody is going to postpone reopenings because of there being less air pollution either. It is a side effect that will disappear when we try to get things back to normal but there's nothing wrong with pointing out that for this brief moment in modern human civilization, there was less toxic and climate changing materials being put into the air, land, and sea. That will also have a positive effect on people's health and the environment. And remember, weight loss from cancer is probably unavoidable, but large amounts of pollution are not. It just costs too much money to reduce it, and profits are more important than a cleaner Earth and people's health.

But again, none of this was done to achieve that and none of this will continue past it's necessity to preserve it.

 

Finding something good?

If I were to say to someone withering away with stage 4 lung cancer...."On the bright side, at least you have lost some weight!"...Would you find that to be an appropriate comment? Or how about to someone that just had their legs cut off by a train...."On the bright side, you dont have to spend money on shoes anymore!"

Please tell me how you are rationalizing the OP's comments to be substantively different from the comments I just mentioned? The world is suffering right now. Finding something good in that suffering is NOT appropriate. This is not the proper time for such things, regardless of how happy less polluted air somewhere in the world makes you.

This comment is what it really boils down to...... You and the OP are taking this tragedy and using it to still advocate for and push your political agenda. That is what is most abhorrent!

 

Suffering exists all around us every day. If the pandemic happened it wouldn't stop suffering. It's only when we let go of that suffering can we move forward. This pandemic for better or worst has shown us the consequences of our day to day actions and what we do to the earth. It's a lesson, neither good nor bad. And it's up to us to figure out what to do going forward.

 

As I said above, you ( and many other leftists) are using this tragedy to push your political agenda. How you rationalize that to be OK is beyond logic. It is truly disgusting, and worthy of shame.

NO...this pandemic is not a reason for you to push your environmental agenda! It literally has not one thing to do with this pandemic.

 

1.) I'm not a leftist. I'm a centrist.
2.) Do you get mad at the rain for ruining your picnic or parade? Do you cry because the leaves fall? It's just what they do, there is no point in getting upset at the world. What matters is we understand why the world is the way it is.

 

Some aspects should be continued. The infrastructure for remote work has existed for years. It is long past due time to take advantage of it. Clean air, lower costs, cheaper gas and products, less traffic, less centralized and therefore more affordable housing and more. And we should drastically curtail our trade with China. Curb immigration, stop illegal immigration. And more.

I'm a radical right wing reptile and I get that there are upsides to this shut down.

 

While I admittedly do not follow your postings all that closely, any time that you and I have interacted including now , you have always taken the leftist position. If you have some examples of you arguing in favor of a rightist position, I am more than willing to change my perception. Until that time however, your claim seems to me to be a little dubious.

So rain falling is as inevitable as leftists using a global tragedy to push their political agenda? To answer your question, no I do not get mad at the rain because it lacks both a conscience and the ability to think. Come to think of it so do many leftists. Perhaps I do need to come to the realization that they cannot help themselves, and that they are as powerless as is rain to be able to actually think or properly express non politically motivated empathy. You make a good point.

 

Two possible reasons for that.
1.) It's like I'm saying I'm not vanilla, I'm french vanilla. There are important differences but the way we categorize them makes it hard to see the subtle but important differences.
2.) I know I've defended Trump against some criticisumes I think on one of Golem's posts in recent memory. I also know I was interviewed about Trump and I told to see where we stands 100 days to see how good he would actually be. Maybe I post where you don't see?

Or is it that if the pandemic has shut things down that it's a fact of this world and no need to be upset by it. It's just what it is. We can see lots of bad, but we can see good in it too.

 

I hold several leftist positions as well, which definitely also gives me a strong argument for being a centrist. I am not sure that the distinction is all that relevant to this conversation however. If you want to call yourself a centrist, then we both can call ourselves centrists. At this moment on this subject, I am taking the rightist position and you are taking the leftist. That seems to me to be the only relevant aspect at this moment.

I can use that same logic to say to a man whose teenager just died tragically...."hey at least you wont have to spend money on tuition!" While there is in fact a silver lining in not having to pay tuition, it is not an appropriate observation to convey relating to that tragedy.

Perhaps you are right in that there will always be a**holes using every tragedy to push their political agenda. That does not mean however that I am therefore not going to point out that they are being an a**hole.

 

On the contrary, finding bright spots is absolutely appropriate, and more than that, necessary. The difference between your examples above and what the OP is saying is that a reduction in pollution affects everybody and their health, even those who didn't work in the industries that caused it.

Cancer or leg amputations mainly only affect the victim. There would be nothing inappropriate about the example comments you used if the victim themselves made them. They might even provide a moment of levity.

Everybody who is exposed to it becomes a victim of air pollution to one degree or another. It's hazardous to your health.

No, not really. I'm not pushing for anything. You're just spinning this the way you'd prefer.