The Will of God .. according to the Early Judeo Christian

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Giftedone, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The clearest and by far the most lengthy description of Judgement from Jesus in the NT is in the sermon on the mount (Matt 5-7) - and since we are in Matt - the sheep and shepherd's parable Matt 25 - which is in keeping with the theme in that Sermon

    Here we have not one passage - of which there may be a number of interpretations -
    "Only through Me" - for example could mean a number of things -with at least two very conflicting possibilities.

    In Matt we have an entire Sermon - the Theme of which is how to get through the pearly gates - a judgement is foretold

    Not all who have faith in the lord will make it - according to Matt 7:21 - "Only those that do the will of the Father"

    The way to get past judgement - is the will of the Father - he wants us to make it through the pearly gates.

    This Sermon and Matt 25 -Sheep and Goat's parable- were what the members of the Church of Jerusalem had to go by- those preached to by the disciples- as opposed to those preached to by Paul - group that disappeared within a few decades after the fall of the temple.

    Jesus sent the disciples to preach to the lost sheep of Israel what did these folks think the will of the Father was - because Jesus is preaching this Sermon to them- and from that perspective.

    The sermon on the mount is all about works as a way through the pearly gates - This is also true of the Sheep and Goats parable - Where Jesus Judges who gets in and who does not - on the basis of works.
     
  2. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    "We cannot be saved by works, yet we cannot be saved without them. The place of works is not to earn salvation but to evidence it, not to procure salvation but to prove it. Thus both Paul and James taught that an authentic faith works. But Paul emphasized the faith that issues in works, whereas James emphasized the works that issue from faith. Both would agree that faith without works is dead."

    John R.W. Stott, CBE
     
  3. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yep pretty much.

    If you are truly saved then you will do the works automatically and a person that doesn't probably was never saved to begin with.

    Just doing the works, and the Bible speaks of this many times, doesn't matter by itself.
     
  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you no longer believe "Sola Fide" - Faith alone doctrine ?
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "If you are truly saved" - how does one know if one is saved or not ?
     
  6. Hawkins

    Hawkins Active Member

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    What Paul said is basically that by the covenant (New Covenant) brought by Jesus, humans are saved by faith and faith alone. However, in terms of technicality, then how can one know that who is saved? The thief on the cross did nothing, but simply saved. It is so because the significance of the New Covenant is that Jesus is the Judge. However if everyone is saved the same way as the thief (he did nothing), then how can one tell that if God/Jesus is a fair God.

    To answer the first question, if you have faith on something, how much faith? Who can measure your faith? Humans don't have the ability to measure one's faith. However God can measure as God judges hearts. Faith in Jesus however can be evaluated by one's deed reflecting his faith. If you have the correct kind of faith (as James put, even demons believe one God), your deeds should be able to reflect your faith. That's why (as James put) faith without works is dead.

    We can tell one's faith by one's deeds reflecting his faith. This is just a rough estimation, as we can't follow a person 24/7 to know who he is. We can't tell one's future deeds either. We can only tell what he's doing in front of us right now to make a rough evaluation on how one's faith is reflected by his deeds. That's why at the same time we are told not to judge. Judgment belongs to God.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  7. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the person was sincere when they gave their life to Christ.

    They alone know if they were or were not.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's nonsense - a self induced euphoria on the basis of irrational fantasy. Such fantasies are pleasant I know - I have them too - but lets not confuse that with defacto reality.
     
  9. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since you don't believe in salvation than obviously the question doesn't apply to you.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do believe in salvation - but also realize there is a difference between fantasy and reality.
     
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Bible is very clear that works do not get you into Heaven and that the ONLY path is through Jesus.

    Honestly, this is like the least confusing part of the entire Bible.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do you think of 1 Peter 3:18-19?

    18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,

    19 in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach
     
  13. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Paul never met Jesus and never heard him preach.
     

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