Really? You're going to go with that? The discussion was whether the AR-15 uses clips. He wasn't distinguishing between platform or gun. None of the guns mention require the clips they use. Every magazine he mention can be manually loaded. The discussion was over whether guns use clips or magazines. He, incorrectly, stated that those other guns use clips and the AR-15 does not. Don't embarrass yourself. Jump ship on this one while you can and you still have some credibility. AR-15s use clips to load magazines - just like every gun he mentioned.
In fact, what about the case of California AR-15s with fixed - as in non-removable - magazines? Then loading the magazine with a clip is exactly the same as loading those others. Even with removable magazines, the only difference is that the magazine is removable... ChoppedLiver even stated that the AR-15 magazines are "loaded" manually or using a mag loader. He used the term "load" for loading the magazine. Loading refers to loading the magazine in all the guns he mentioned. In most ARs, certainly not all, to complete loading the gun you put the loaded magazine in the gun. That doesn't mean that loading the magazine is not part of loading the gun any more than it does in those others. In all except the M1, you must load the magazine before you can shoot. Just because the magazine was already in the gun does not change the fact that those guns, like AR-15s, are loaded with a clip. You're trying to nit-pick but, even in doing that, you're failing. AR-15s use clips to load magazines. Not always, there are other ways, just as there are other ways in every single other gun he mentioned. AR-15s use clips to load magazines.
If you load an empty magazine into your AR-15, is it loaded? Of course not. You load the magazine first. That's what makes the gun loaded.
Let me ask you a question, if I take my AR-15 load a round in the chamber, hit the bolt release and let is slam closed and then insert a empty mag, place the safety to fire, would you be willing to stand in front of it while I pulled the trigger? If not why, by your theory it isn't loaded. Do you how many people have been killed thinking semi-auto's are not loaded once the mag is pulled? It's thinking like just did that gets people killed. Nuff said.
You are totally incorrect, a gun is not loaded until a round is chambered, placing a mag in a gun does not load it, don't believe me, try this, take any semi-automatic firearm and unload it which means checking the chamber to ensure it does not have a round in it, pull back the hammer, slide or charging handle, insert a mag and pull the trigger. Now what do you think is going to happen? As a firearms instructor I can assure you it will make a click because if you clear the chamber and insert a mag the gun is NOT LOADED, a gun is never loaded unless a round is chambered, then and only then is it loaded. Still don't believe me, try this take a semi-auto firearm chamber a round, remove the mag, is it now no longer loaded? Just to find out take it outside aim is down at something soft like sand and pull the trigger, I'll bet it goes bang, because it was loaded even though the mag is no longer in it. Time to take some basic gun lessons before you hurt yourself of someone else.
You're arguing for argument's sake. I didn't say it could only be loaded with a clip and, in fact, any of the guns ChoppedLiver mentioned can be loaded with or without a clip. He said an AR is not loaded with a clip because he didn't know an AR could be loaded with a clip. There was, and is, no reason for a big debate here. He made a simple mistake from ignorance. I pointed out the error. Let it go. He was wrong. You're just looking for a way to argue with Levant as a challenge. He's wrong. An AR uses clips in exactly the same way all those others use clips - to load the magazine. Seriously... Let it go. It wasn't a big deal until he, and now you, try to make it a big deal, not because you believe you're right; it's clear that I am, but because you want to try to win an argument with me. You can't. Neither of you can.
Sadly you are totally incorrect and have demonstrated it many times in the past few posts. Time to take some basic firearms training before posting anymore false information.
Hmmm... when I was being trained (brain washed) in gun safety starting around age 5, both my uncle & my Da used to tell me, when you aren’t looking, guns load themselves. They drilled gun safety into me until it became part of my DNA. But, as they did were doing that, they also continually trained me on how to recognize and sort out the action of any gun and how to safely check if a gun was loaded. I was constantly quizzed. I did the same with my girls, with who, at an early age, often they would be with me, and assist when I performed maintenance on my guns, where I always explained each step in the process and the why. When I see folks in a gun shop, a gun show, or a range... it takes but seconds to identify those that either haven’t been well trained or have become complacent (even some in LE) in handling guns not realizing gun safety is a 100% of the time, a life and death requirement. I am probably considered an old grump, but I will call out a gun safety violation any time and where I see it. Over my years working on guns, more than once I have had a semi-auto brought to me for work where the mag was removed but a round was still chambered. That will never slide by (pun intended) without the customer getting called on it when the gun. When I teach gun safety, a continual thing in the gun courses I do, I have several methods of reinforcing the rules which are designed to drive the rules home. You just saw me check if the gun I handed you is empty. Now is the gun loaded or unloaded? Stake your life on your answer?
Are you kidding me? You're seriously making that idiotic argument to me? People will go to prison listening to and following your advice. Before giving legal advice or any advice, you really ought to use the keyboard in front of you for more than emptying your brain. If you're a firearms instructor, certified by whom I can't imagine, you need your certification revoked. Your arrogance in being wrong is staggering. The problem is not being wrong, it's not even not knowing when you're wrong - that's a condition into which we all fall and embarrass ourselves from time to time. What's really sad is to be wrong, be proven to be wrong, and still can't accept being wrong. California penal code: North Dakota: Texas: Virginia: You're going off the deep end just to try to argue that using a clip for loading an AR-15 magazine is different from using a clip for loading the magazines in the other guns that ChoppedLiver listed, himself also saying that it is different. It's not different. An AR magazine can be loaded with a clip or without a clip. Those other guns are the same; the magazine is loaded with a clip or can be loaded without a clip. I actually did some more research and learned that the M1 is actually an exception that neither he nor you has argued. He mentioned the clip stays in the gun and I, mistakenly, said it can be loaded without the clip. Technically it can - you can put one in the chamber. But the M1 magazine, I learned, can't be loaded without a clip; the chamber can but not the magazine. Since I was referring to the magazine, in my own ignorance, I won't try to pull what you and he are pulling - trying to find some off-the-wall technicality upon which to hang my argument. I was wrong on one of the guns - the M1. The magazine actually is loaded with the clip, like I said, but it is different in that the magazine cannot be loaded without the clip. So, for all except the M1, including the AR, the magazine can be loaded with a clip or manually, or, in most cases, some aftermarket loader. For the M1, like all the rest, the magazine is loaded with a clip but can only be loaded with a clip - not manually. So, still, the AR is like all the others; the magazine can be loaded with a clip.
BTW, more than once I have caught a character in a movie, ‘unload’ a semi auto by racking the slide to eject a chambered round, then remove the mag. Think a firearms adviser was on set?
Nothing personal, but you would never hand me a gun, I would have you put it down, I would then pick it up, otherwise one of us is on the wrong end of a barrel, and no matter what I saw you doing with it, I would consider it loaded until I determined for myself it was not loaded, as you very well know anything less is asking for very dangerous accidental discharge and a lot of grief.
I didn't dodge. I demonstrated, with absolute certainty, that you're wrong about the definition of loaded. I proved you have no business providing any gun advice to anyone. I proved it is you that needs gun lessons. I was right about an AR-15 using clips and I was right about the definition of loaded. You've been right about nothing in this thread. I really can't figure out why you took this hill on which to fight a battle. It was a nothing difference but you're more interested in challenging Levant than you are in actual facts... That's a mistake. You're not even in the same league - not intellectually, knowledge, research skills, or debating skills. You're an amateur. Let it go. AR-15s use clips to load the magazine JUST LIKE ALL OF THE GUNS ChoppedLiver MENTIONED.
I believe they are required to be on the the set but that doesn't mean gun safety will be allowed to break the continuity of the shoot. Years back I was observed entering a 7/11 in Miami, the stakeout team noticed the way I adjusted my pants after exiting my vehicle, when I came out I was ordered at gunpoint to lean against the wall and was disarmed, a uniform showed up and while things where being sorted out she unloaded my Colt Officers ACP by racking the slide and then removing the mag, she placed both and the round that came out on the hood of my car. It was quickly determined I was not a threat and since I had had a carry license (expired) I was allowed to go on my way, before I touched my gun I mentioned to the uniform "do you realize that gun is loaded," she assured me it was not i asked her politely to pick it back up and rack the slide again, she did and another round was ejected, the UC's where sort of snickering and she was aghast, she put my gun back on the hood and handed me the round off the ground. I requested permission to load my gun and be on my way, no problem, slide locked back, round in chamber, drop slide, insert the other round back into the mag safety on and re-holster. Just another day in the hood.
Absolutely not, all you posted where statutes, the only term that applies to a gun being loaded is their a "round in the chamber," if not it is not loaded, if there is it is loaded. Statutes don't matter when it comes to determining if a gun is actually loaded or not. Bottom line a loaded gun will fire, an unloaded gun will not. You really have no clue as to why or how important that is to understand.
AR-15s are the best if you want a high body count in case of the zombie apocalypse, the race war, you go postal or thinning out the herd. For hunting or self defense not so much.
I have on occasion handed someone a gun, but, when I have the chamber is always expose, I.e. slide locked open and mag handed separately, revolver cylinder open (usually finger under top strap), barrel pointed away from anyone or any surface capable of ricochet, obvious finger off the trigger. In part when I do that it it also doubles as a demonstration of how they should handle the firearm. That said, there is ample merit in what you advocate. As for checking the gun status your self, amen, never trust in anyone but yourself. Funny, you’ve seen the meme... I believe in gun control, if there is a gun about, I want to be in control. Just as I have, in part because of where I was raised, a continual, almost unconscious, habit of maintaining situation awareness, even with that, in a gun shop, gun show, or any place with people and guns, that continual, unconscious, continual scan goes into overdrive, and is at the forefront of my thinking. Feels like herding cats.
You're making assumptions about things not in evidence. We're not talking about whether a guns is safe without a gun in the chamber; we're talking about whether an AR-15 uses clips to load the magazine just like ALL of the other guns ChoppedLiver mentioned. Feel free to start a thread on how to determine if a gun is safe. I'll join and we can talk about that. Clearly you have nothing else to offer in this thread as I've defeated every argument about the topic.
And as already mentioned, by your terms, the AR-15 also uses a flashlight, just because one can be attached to it. Give it up and learn something about gun terminology, right now you are publicly embarrassing yourself amongst those who do understand the correct terminology.
That's stupid. The flashlight has nothing to do with loading the gun. I showed you the legal definitions of loaded. If I carried my semi-auto pistol without a round in the chamber, when I rack the slide, I don't say I'm loading my gun; I say I am chambering a round. The gun was already considered loaded - legally and otherwise. By your definition, then, not a single one of the guns ChoppedLiver mentioned uses a clip except the M1. To say that they do means they use a sling, or a flashlight, if one is attached. Actually, they sort of do, don't they?
