Using Wood Chips From Tree Companies

Discussion in 'Survival and Sustainability' started by Adfundum, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    20,754
    Likes Received:
    8,047
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I live on 43 acres and no neighbors so I don't have to worry about the POA esthetics police.
     
    Adfundum likes this.
  2. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I should have said it's 12" tall in places. Not sure why, but some areas are darker and taller. I'd say the soil is better in those patches, but I don't know why.

    I mowed one section yesterday, and it looks really good. Repeated mowing might be an issue--but so far it looks good. The photo is a part that isn't growing as fast and is uncut. Behind it you can see the color of my neighbor's grass (and most other lawns in the area).

    upload_2020-1-6_10-11-25.png


    Also started turning over the wood chips yesterday. I thought they'd gone cold, but they're still steaming. Almost looked like ashes in the warm areas. While I was turning the pile, I noticed lots and lots of worms. Threw in my kitchen scraps, covered them up, and left everything to the worms. You Go Worms!
     
    vman12 likes this.
  3. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    17,371
    Likes Received:
    9,805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nine times out of ten the shorter, lighter green plants will be short of nitrogen. If this is your first application of wood chips and they are actively composting enough to generate heat, most of your nitrogen in those areas may be tied up by the microorganisms breaking down your chips. This should be a temporary problem. I’ll bet you are right about variations in your original soil playing a part as well. Hopefully the chips will even things out in time.

    That’s what I love about cereal grain crops. They give us bright green color when most everything else is dead or dormant.

    It sounds like you have everything in place to create some great soil.
     
    Adfundum likes this.
  4. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,100
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have 7 goats and they thrive on Marshall ryegrass. I have never had it go to seed on me but you get a lot of high protien forage when other grass is dormant. I didn't plant any this year but it is a good winter grass. You could use it as a green manure if you don't have goats. Just cut it now and then.... Maybe.
     
    Adfundum likes this.
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean "undocumented foliage".
     
    Adfundum likes this.
  6. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My assumption is that although the wood chips will break down I do believe you said you've had an improvement of plant life. You don't say whether those plants are eaten or not and what part of them are consumed. The point: whatever is left each year will help to keep your soil viable for the coming spring. Think of it as compost.
     
  7. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't have an actual vegetable garden. The wood chips are used around trees and shrubs, some of which are in large areas where I rounded the corners to save on mowing. In one area I did plant tomatoes, and they did pretty well. In other areas, I tossed some cantaloupe, cucumber, and watermelon scraps with seeds. They grew but didn't produce anything worth eating. I left them alone simply because I thought they made a good ground cover. The vines covered a lot of area and the leaves were fairly large.

    My overall goal is to have a decent, low-maintenance yard. I love those wood chips, but don't love hauling two dump truck loads of chips to all corners of the yard. My hope is to get the shrubs and plants well-established and not have to hunt down someone to haul the chips out here each year. At this point, the chips seem to work magic on my soil, and I'm hoping that jump-starts a process that will continue for many, many years.

    My use of annual rye grass on the lawn is just an attempt to improve the soil I have. I don't know if it will do much, and it's just an experiment for now. My soil has come a long way since we bought the place, but it's still shallow and compacted in many places. But even if it doesn't do much for the soil, I really like having a green lawn in the winter.
     
  8. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ha! Yes, but at least they're green. That's become the most repeated phrase in this area. We've all come into this with the attitude that we'd just till it up, throw down some seed, and all would be good. Without fail, we all set aside our shredded sense of aesthetics, looked at all the weeds that grew, and said, "At least they're green." We're just now coming to terms with the idea that in order to grow grass, we need to grow some soil.
     
    vman12 likes this.
  9. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Just to be clear, the wood chips aren't going down on the lawn. They're intended for the many large mulch beds around the trees and shrubs. Wish I had enough to throw down on the whole lot.

    I went out with a pitchfork and stuck it in the ground in areas that had dark grass and those that had lighter grass. In the places where it's dark, the fork went in easy. No so easy in the lighter areas.

    In your opinion, would it be a good idea to throw down some fertilizer or should I just leave it alone?


    Farmers in this area put it down over the winter. I've always liked how well it grew, but was hesitant about spending money on seed that wasn't intended to last. Now that I've done it, I'll probably keep doing it.


    Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate your expertise.
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly.

    Growing grass is easy.

    Creating the soil conditions for grass to grow is the hard part ;)
     
    politicalcenter and Adfundum like this.
  11. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,100
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Manure.... even manure with persistent herbicides. Lay down a couple inches of manure, then grass seed, and finally wheat straw. In a wet season that should just about do it. In dry seasons add water.
     
    vman12 likes this.
  12. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    17,371
    Likes Received:
    9,805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah, sorry, my mistake. I should have figured that out when you talked about turning the composting chips. If you have compaction problems, which you’ve obviously figured out from your pitchfork test, it will stunt growth. Maybe I missed it earlier, but what has been growing there before the rye?

    Also, it would be helpful for you to know if your “stand” (plants per square foot) is uniform between the greener/taller areas and the thinner/lighter areas. I have trouble sometimes in areas compacted by wheel traffic from silage harvest showing exactly what you describe. If you are able to establish a good stand/plant population in the compacted areas, the sheer root mass is able to remedy the compaction problem. If your stand is poor, the compaction remains and things won’t improve. For me the solution to this problem is to use irrigation right after planting and again as emergence is taking place. This ensures a good stand.

    [QUOTEIn your opinion, would it be a good idea to throw down some fertilizer or should I just leave it alone?[/QUOTE]
    Fertilizer will definitely help. But if your stand is poor and/or compaction too great, the effect may be negligible. Fertilizer on the good ground will probably increase growth rates above what you want if you have to mow! :)

    Is it mostly cover crop that is killed in the spring or is it mostly harvested for grain? I really don’t know much about what crops are common in your area.


    I like to grow things. It’s very satisfying. I’m actually not the expert. My wife was an agronomy major so if I’m stumped I ask her. The problem with that is she understands things at the molecular/atomic level and sometimes it goes over my head. Cation exchange capacities of soil types and all that...:)
     
  13. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I suggest that you work on the "compacted places". Rent a motor tiller and turn the soil and use some of those wood chips or straw or mulch or anything that retains moisture. I am a bonsai grower and I use non-perfumed, non-clump cat litter. You don't say where you live but I assume it isn't in the desert.
     
  14. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I use a mix of topsoil, 24-24-4 starting fertilizer, sand and peat moss. I also typically throw in some mycorrhizae and humic acid to the soil mix.

    The peat moss in the mix is great for water retention....initially it's very hydrophobic but once you give it a good soaking it holds up to 15 times it's weight in water.

    It works well in keeping the seeds moist but not soaked, and really puts that water where you want it: the root zone of the new seeds until they can really get going.

    The mycorrhizae/humic acid will take over and you'll get explosive root growth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  15. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What's grown there has changed over the years, but most recently I tried to grow bermuda grass. Northern grasses like fescue don't establish well at all. My guess is that the dark surface soil is is too thin (about one inch) and the clay soil beneath it dries too much in the summer to support such grasses.

    The bermuda is not anything I planted, but when I saw patches of it spreading out, I took plugs and planted them in those poor soil areas. But even the bermuda gets crowded out by what I believe is an annual crabgrass.

    The crabgrass is shallow rooted, but quickly covers the ground and helps hold moisture. In fact, it holds on to the dew well into the afternoon, making mowing a challenge (plugs up the mower). It will reseed itself each year, and is actually crowding out the bermuda to the point that where bermuda had once spread and covered about a third of the front lawn, it's now just a handful of small patches.

    On the other side of the lawn from what we see in the photo, there was a lot of clover growing. I was digging in that area several years ago, and found most of the clover roots had gone down about six to eight inches and there were nodules spread out along the roots. At first I tried to kill off the clover, but gradually came to accept it as a cover crop since it retreats below the surface in the heat of summer. I've noticed that the rye grass planted this year has over taken the clover. It's still there, but lying low for now.

    As far as the compaction, yes, that's been one of the biggest problems in the area. When the land was scraped off for houses, there was no effort to save the topsoil. Even worse, the installation of septic systems meant digging deep into the dirt and burying the topsoil. I bought a tractor with a bucket to do some grading and put in a driveway. I didn't know any better and did the same dumb thing with the topsoil. Even worse, the tractor had a mower deck and after a few years I noticed nothing would grow in the wheel tracks.

    I still have compaction problems in the lighter areas. After I realized my tractor was a cause of that, I stopped using it for mowing. I also leveled off areas that had a lot of slope, even creating a very slight depression to hold the rain water in the summer. We can go for weeks or even months with no rain, so I figured a rain catch would help. It does seem to have helped, but the ground still cracks open in the dry spells.
    I'm not farming, just trying to have it all--a lush green landscape in a rather dry part of the state. It's a hobby/obsession. Not being a farmer, I don't know the crops very well. I'm in the Piedmont of NC--a rather dry micro-climate, and I see cotton, corn, soybeans, peanuts, etc., but much of what grows here is for the cows.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  16. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks. I've actually tried tilling in several things to reduce the compaction and improve fertility. I used peat moss, pine bark chips, and hardwood mulch, each in a different place. I noticed no difference after two years, and dug a trench through each one to see if the soil improved. Again, I couldn't tell any difference.

    Then, I called my county extension agent and was told to limit tilling to just the first inch or two of the soil so as not to destroy the structure of the soil.

    Next, I tried using a core aerator. It worked well in areas that didn't seem compacted, but wouldn't penetrate in the other areas. I ended up using a garden fork a few times, but that gets pretty tiresome. But I'm still leaning towards the idea of vertical tillage.
     
  17. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You'll get it right eventually and then you wonder, "Why didn't I do that the first time?" :nod:
     
  18. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think that's a great idea, but the peat moss is not a good thing in this area because the soil will dry out so much in the summer that the peat becomes impossible to re-wet. My soil is not yet at a point where I can get the results you get from that mix. I have seen what I think is a significant improvement by putting down some tree and shrub planting soil. It seems to encourage the mycorrihizae and worms love it. It also seems to help keep the moisture in the soil better better than other things I've tried. Have not tried the humic acid, but will look into it. Thanks for the tips.
     
    vman12 likes this.
  19. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ha! True. So far, most of what I have is what's left after a whole bunch of mistakes. And yes, I look back and think I should have known better...
     
    Thingamabob likes this.
  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Mainly I'm just using enough peat moss to help the seeds stay moist during germination. You don't have to put a lot in your soil mix for the seed bedding.

    I'd send in some soil samples to get checked for nutrient deficiency and then use liquid fert to bring it up fast. That and a nice seed bed mix will probably get you going with your lawn just fine.

    FWIW it's usually best to re-seed in the early fall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
    Adfundum likes this.
  21. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,100
    Likes Received:
    6,786
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you add a little soap to the water when you moisten the peat moss it will not be so hydrophobic. I used to use peat moss and sand to start cuttings. I would mix it in a wheelbarrow.
     
    vman12 likes this.
  22. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right. It acts as a surfactant. That's why I mentioned the liquid aeration stuff earlier....it's basically the same thing with some added benefits.
     
  23. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I keep telling myself I'm going to do that, then I go and do like I did today--mark off a section and add stuff to see what happens. I added fertilizer in one area, and tomorrow I'll add some lime in another. The biggest problem is that only tells me something about the marked-off area, not the rest of the yard. I'm going to find out where to get the sample kits.
     
    vman12 likes this.
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's the only way to be sure. I thought my soil was too acidic but I was wrong....it was too alkaline. If I had added lime I woulda been screwed for a loooong time trying to bring it back down to 7'ish.
     
  25. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,682
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I do know the soil in this area is acidic, and in the places where I put concrete pavers the grass is darker and thicker. How acidic is the real question. But you're right, I really should have it checked.
     
    vman12 likes this.

Share This Page