Why do those on the Left oppose tariffs?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by kazenatsu, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do those on the Left oppose tariffs on goods imported from foreign countries like China?

    Yes, tariffs could discourage trade, but isn't that also pretty much equally true of any type of tax? (it discourages economic exchange)


    And why is it you demand a higher minimum wage, but you seem to have no problem with the jobs being outsourced to other countries where the wages are much lower?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  2. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    There is a very simple answer to a very a very complex question. WW2 and the liberal world order created after WW2.
     
  3. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I lean left and I don't have a problem with tariffs. I prefer them. I just want them done on even footing across multiple nations and not targeted at just say China because of manufactured excuses. I find the Chinese economic awakening fascinating. One of the things these neophyte capitalists are doing which amazes me is taking any return on investment no matter how little as a win. That allows companies to manufacture things that otherwise wouldn't be manufactured at a price people are willing to pay for them. From what I have read 3% profit is considered a strong return in China.
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, the outsourcing of American manufacturing was not really a new phenomena beginning with China. It began with Japan, after the WW2, since American policymakers wanted to build up Japan's economy to ward off the Communists in Russia and China. Then later, as Japan started becoming wealthier and land prices and costs of living began to rise, the manufacturing began to move to South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong (then not a part of China) and Singapore (the so-called "Asian Tigers"). It wasn't until the mid-1990s that production began really shifting to China en masse, and the peak of these exports occurred from about 1999 to 2005. There is still a lot being imported to America that is manufactured in China, but over the last several years it has begun to shift to several other smaller poor countries like Vietnam. As China has gotten wealthy from these exports, the same thing has begun happening in China that happened in Japan, the land prices in the coastal cities have skyrocketed, wage levels and costs of living have gone up, and the factories are finding they have more trouble competing and can't keep costs as low as they used to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
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  5. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Sure but it is not the outsourcing I find fascinating. They have an economic esprit de corps that America has lost.
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No doubt the Chinese (as well as the Japanese and Koreans) have a work ethic that the average American today does not, but I think there are additional economic (and some political) factors beyond that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  7. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Tariffs are a tax on one portion of our population, normal hardworking Americans, to support another portion; greedy manufacturers who have political cronies and can't compete in the normal marketplace by making a better product for less and so want the government to tax their foreign competition. I note whatever companies want tariffs and I never deal with them as I am assured they are making **** and do so deliberately. I don't think that it's at all patriotic to "buy American". We should buy whatever is the best product for the best price. That way we don't support our Greedy citizens who want to exploit our love of our homeland and at the same time acquire a reputation for being savvy consumers among the world's peoples. We don't help our country by supporting people who don't want to make the best thing for the lowest price.

    I find any support of tariffs to be very deplorable. It used to be that other countries raised tariffs against the US, because we sold the best products at the lowest price and people everywhere bought American because it was solid and rational good sense to do so. Tariffs are nothing but an admission that your day of industrial leadership has passed and you now need government support to keep limping along until you finally die anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those greedy manufacturers have already increased their profits by outsourcing their factories to other countries where costs are far lower.

    I am not sure about the exact statistics, but I think somewhere around 40 of the profits from goods manufactured in Chinese factories that will get exported to America are going to large American corporations, since these corporations often own these factories (or at least have an ownership stake; the Chinese government several years ago passed a law that foreign companies were not allowed to have more than a 50% ownership stake in any Chinese company).

    Many years ago, like around 1999, most of those Chinese factories were owned by American corporations who had recently outsourced their production from America. An example of this would be Apple, which exercised very tight control over its Chinese factories.

    It's a lot better for corporations if they can pay their employees $2 an hour but still be able to sell in America.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  9. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    That may have been so years ago but it's not the case today. All that work is automated and Apple now pays nothing, not even $2. It's not cheap labor that makes our prices higher, it's robots and not really even them but greedy manufacturers who charge higher prices and sell shoddy goods even when they don't have to, secure in the knowledge that Trump will make their foreign competitor's prices higher still. Consequently American consumers just CAN'T buy quality, not at any price and foreigners learn that American products are pure ****. Thus we Americans lose now and later, here and there, only Trump's cronies gain. Aren't tariffs wonderful?
     
  10. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    What is a "greedy manufacturer"? As for "increased profits" well, that sounds like they are looking after their shareholders? Or are you implying that a company is morally beholden to some social interest?

    Absolutely!
     

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